HC Deb 11 January 1994 vol 235 cc10-1
9. Mr. Gapes

To ask the Secretary of State for Defence when he next plans to meet the Russian Defence Minister to discuss European security.

Mr. Rifkind

I expect to meet General Grachev at a meeting of NATO Defence Ministers and their counterparts from the member states of the North Atlantic Co-operation Council, to be held later this year.

Mr. Gapes

Does the Secretary of State share my concern at the rising support in Russia for the fascist Vladimir Zhirinovsky, a man who has threatened a third world war? Is he aware that even the Yeltsin Government have so far failed to recognise the borders of Ukraine, which is contrary to the requirements of international law under the CSCE agreement, to the Paris charter, and to yesterday's NATO communiqué? When he next meets hisRussian counterpart, will he impress on him the fact that if we are to get the Ukraine to carry out its policy of getting rid of nuclear weapons, it will be vital to obtain firm assurances from Russia that there will be no intervention in neighbouring states, either in the so-called near abroad or in any of the former republics of the Soviet Union?

Mr. Rifkind

Naturally it is important that Russia recognises the independence and integrity of all the former republics of the former Soviet Union, and it is also crucial that neither Mr. Zhirinovsky nor others in Russia harbour any illusion that somehow the old Russian empire could be recreated. There is every sign that in the near future there will be an announcement of an agreement between Ukraine and Russia, in which President Clinton seems to have played a major part, and which will help to resolve the long-standing problem of nuclear weapons in Ukraine and help to bring further stability to that important region.

Mr. Duncan Smith

Has my right hon. and learned Friend noticed that recently, in rejecting calls for cuts in defence expenditure, the Swedish Defence Minister went on to say that Sweden should increase its spending by about 30 per cent. because the Russians had failed to cut the number of their troops near Sweden? Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that that has a huge bearing on us? In his future discussions with the Treasury will he draw that fact to its attention and point out that there is still a strong potential threat from Russia?

Mr. Rifkind

It is undoubtedly true that Russia remains a nuclear super-power, and also a formidable conventional power. The reductions in the defence forces of the NATO states have taken into account the massive reductions made by Russia, but I entirely accept that it is necessary to monitor the situation carefully and to ensure that throughout Europe, including Russia, the various countries concerned are not in any way rearming or imposing new threats.

Dr. David Clark

When the Secretary of State next meets the Russian Defence Minister, will he stress the desire of the people of the west to live in peace and harmony with those of Russia, but will he also stress that it is not a hostile act to wish to determine our own security arrangements and that Russia should not expect to veto the expansion of NATO, which in due course will increase the stability of the whole continent?

Mr. Rifkind

NATO has made it clear, most recently in the summit that has just finished, that its future expansion is indeed a possibility, and that the "Partnership for Peace" proposals do not preclude the possibility that a number of states that have shown an interest in joining NATO may one day be members. The present priority is for NATO to develop links with all the countries of central and eastern Europe, including Russia itself, but the possibility of additional membership cannot be excluded.