§
Motion made, and Question put forthwith pursuant to Standing Order No. 102(9) (European Standing Committees),
That this House takes note of European Community Document No. 11061/94, relating to the Common Agricultural Policy agrimonetary system; and supports the Government's intention of seeking to negotiate agrimonetary arrangements which do not impose undue costs on the European Community budget nor unnecessary burdens on traders in agricultural products.—[Mr. Wood.]
§ The House divided:Ayes 303,Noes 251.
1040| Division No.25] | [22.15pm |
| AYES | |
| Ainsworth, Peter(East Surrey) | Bottomley, Rt Hon Virginia |
| Aitken, Rt Hon Jonathan | Bowden, Sir Andrew |
| Alexander, Richard | Bowis, John |
| Alison, Rt Hon Michael (Selby) | Boyson, Rt Hon Sir Rhodes |
| Allason, Rupert (Torbay) | Brandreth, Gyles |
| Amess, David | Brazier, Julian |
| Arbuthnot, James | Bright, Sir Graham |
| Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham) | Brooke, Rt Hon Peter |
| Arnold, Sir Thomas (Hazel Grv) | Brown, M (Brigg & Cl'thorpes) |
| Ashby, David | Browning, Mrs. Angela |
| Aspinwall, Jack | Bruce, Ian (Dorset) |
| Atkinson, David (Bour'mouth E) | Burns, Simon |
| Atkinson, Peter (Hexham) | Burt, Alistair |
| Baker, Rt Hon K (Mole Valley) | Butcher, John |
| Baker, Nicholas (Dorset North) | Butler, Peter |
| Baldry, Tony | Butterfill, John |
| Banks, Matthew (Southport) | Campbell, Menzies (Fife NE) |
| Banks, Robert (Harrogate) | Carlile, Alexander (Montgomry) |
| Bates, Michael | Carlisle, John (Luton North) |
| Batiste, Spencer | Carlisle, Sir Kenneth (Lincoln) |
| Beith, Rt Hon A J | Carrington, Matthew |
| Bellingham, Henry | Channon, Rt Hon Paul |
| Bendall, Vivian | Churchill, Mr |
| Beresford, Sir Paul | Clappison, James |
| Biffen, Rt Hon John | Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford) |
| Bonsor, Sir Nicholas | Clarke, Rt Hon Kenneth (Ru'clif) |
| Booth, Hartley | Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey |
| Boswell, Tim | Coe, Sebastian |
| Bottomley, Peter (Eltham) | Colvin, Michael |
| Congdon, David | Higgins, Rt Hon Sir Terence |
| Conway, Derek | Hill, James (Southampton Test) |
| Coombs, Simon (Swindon) | Hogg, Rt Hon Douglas (G'tham) |
| Cope, Rt Hon Sir John | Horam, John |
| Cormack, Patrick | Hordem, Rt Hon Sir Peter |
| Couchman, James | Howard, Rt Hon Michael |
| Cran, James | Howarth, Alan (Strat'rd-on-A) |
| Currie, Mrs Edwina (S D'by'ire) | Howell, Rt Hon David (G'dford |
| Davies, Quentin (Stamford) | Howell, Sir Ralph (N Norfolk) |
| Davis, David (Boothferry) | Hughes, Robert G (Harrow W) |
| Day, Stephen | Hunt, Rt Hon David (Wirral W) |
| Deva, Nirj Joseph | Hunt, Sir John (Ravensbourne) |
| Devlin, Tim | Hunter, Andrew |
| Dicks, Terry | Hurd, Rt Hon Douglas |
| Dorrell, Rt Hon Stephen | Jack, Michael |
| Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James | Jackson, Robert (Wantage) |
| Duncan, Alan | Jenkin, Bernard |
| Duncan Smith, Iain | Jessel, Toby |
| Dunn, Bob | Johnson Smith, Sir Geoffrey |
| Durant, Sir Anthony | Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N) |
| Dykes, Hugh | Jones, Nigel (Cheltenham) |
| Eggar, Tim | Jones, Robert B (W Hertfdshr) |
| Elletson, Harold | Key, Robert |
| Emery, Rt Hon Sir Peter | Kilfedder, Sir James |
| Evans, David (Welwyn Hatfield) | king, Rt Hon Tom |
| Evans, Jonathan (Brecon) | Knapman, Roger |
| Evans, Nigel (Ribble Valley) | Knight, Mrs Angela (Erewash) |
| Evans, Roger (Monmouth) | Knight, Greg (Derby N) |
| Evennett, David | Knight, Dame Jill (Bir'm E'st'n) |
| Faber, David | Knox, Sir David |
| Fabricant, Michael | Kynoch, George (Kincardine) |
| Fenner, Dame Peggy | Lait, Mrs Jacqui |
| Field, Barry (Isle of Wight) | Lamont, Rt Hon Norman |
| Fishbum, Dudley | Lang, Rt Hon Ian |
| Forman, Nigel | Lawrence, Sir Ivan |
| Forsyth, Michael (Stirling) | Legg, Barry |
| Forth, Eric | Leigh, Edward |
| Foster, Don (Bath) | Lennox-Boyd, Sir Mark |
| Fowler, Rt Hon Sir Norman | Lester, Jim (Broxtowe) |
| Fox, Dr Liam (Woodspring) | Lidington, David |
| Fox, Sir Marcus (Shipley) | Lightbown, David |
| Freeman, Rt Hon Roger | Lloyd, Rt Hon Peter (Fareham) |
| French, Douglas | Lord, Michael |
| Fry, Sir Peter | Luff, Peter |
| Gale, Roger | Lyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas |
| Gallie, Phil | MacGregor, Rt Hon John |
| Gardiner, Sir George | MacKay, Andrew |
| Garel-Jones, Rt Hon Tristan | Maclean, David |
| Garnier, Edward | McLoughlin, Patrick |
| Gillan, Cheryl | McNair-Wilson, Sir Patrick |
| Goodlad, Rt Hon Alastair | Madel, Sir David |
| Goodson-Wickes, Dr Charles | Maitland, Lady Olga |
| Gorst, Sir John | Major, Rt Hon John |
| Grant, Sir A (Cambs SW) | Malone, Gerald |
| Greenway, Harry (Ealing N) | Mans, Keith |
| Greenway, John (Ryedale) | Marland, Paul |
| Grylls, Sir Michael | Marshall, John (Hendon S) |
| Gummer, Rt Hon John Selwyn | Marshall, Sir Michael (Arundel) |
| Hague, William | Martin, David (Portsmouth S) |
| Hamilton, Rt Hon Sir Archibald | Mates, Michael |
| Hampson, Dr Keith | Mawhinney, Rt Hon Dr Brian |
| Hanley, Rt Hon Jeremy | Mayhew, Rt Hon Sir Patrick |
| Hannam, Sir John | Mellor, Rt Hon David |
| Hargreaves, Andrew | Merchant, Piers |
| Harris, David | Mills, Iain |
| Harvey, Nick | Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling) |
| Haselhurst, Alan | Mitchell, Sir David (Hants NW) |
| Hawkins, Nick | Moate, Sir Roger |
| Hawksley, Warren | Monro, Sir Hector |
| Hayes, Jerry | Montgomery, Sir Fergus |
| Heald, Oliver | Moss, Malcolm |
| Heath, Rt Hon Sir Edward | Needham, Rt Hon Richard |
| Heathcoat-Amory, David | Nelson, Anthony |
| Hendry, Charles | Neubert, Sir Michael |
| Heseltine, Rt Hon Michael | Newton, Rt Hon Tony |
| Hicks, Robert | Nicholls, Patrick |
| Nicholson, David (Taunton) | Stanley, Rt Hon Sir John |
| Nicholson, Emma (Devon West) | Steen, Anthony |
| Norris, Steve | Stephen, Michael |
| Onslow, Rt Hon Sir Cranley | Stewart, Allan |
| Oppenheim, Phillip | Streeter, Gary |
| Ottaway, Richard | Sumberg, David |
| Page, Richard | Sweeney, Walter |
| Paice, James | Sykes, John |
| Patnick, Sir Irvine | Tapsell, Sir Peter |
| Patten, Rt Hon John | Taylor, Ian (Esher) |
| Pattie, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey | Taylor, John M (Solihull) |
| Pawsey, James | Temple-Morris, Peter |
| Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth | Thomason, Roy |
| Porter, Barry (Wirral S) | Thompson, Sir Donald (C'er V) |
| Porter, David (Waveney) | Thompson, Patrick (Norwich N) |
| Portillo, Rt Hon Michael | Thumham, Peter |
| Powell, William (Corby) | Townsend, John (Bridlington) |
| Rathbone, Tim | Townsend, Cyril D (Bexl'yh'th) |
| Redwood, Rt Hon John | Tracey, Richard |
| Renton, Rt Hon Tim | Trend, Michael |
| Richards, Rod | Trotter, Neville |
| Riddick, Graham | Twinn, Dr Ian |
| Robathan, Andrew | Vaughan, Sir Gerard |
| Roberts, Rt Hon Sir Wyn | Viggers, Peter |
| Robertson, Raymond (Ab'd'n S) | Walden, George |
| Robinson, Mark (Somerton) | Walker, Bill (N Tayside) |
| Roe, Mrs Marion (Broxbourne) | Waller, Gary |
| Rumbold, Rt Hon Dame Angela | Ward, John |
| Ryder, Rt Hon Richard | Wardle, Charles (Bexhill) |
| Sackville, Tom | Waterson, Nigel |
| Sainsbury, Rt Hon Tim | Watts, John |
| Scott, Rt Hon Nicholas | Wells, Bowen |
| Shaw, David (Dover) | Wheeler, Rt Hon Sir John |
| Shaw, Sir Giles (Pudsey) | Whitney, Ray |
| Shephard, Rt Hon Gillian | Whittingdale, John |
| Shepherd, Colin (Hereford) | Widdecombe, Ann |
| Shersby, Michael | Wiggin, Sir Jerry |
| Sims, Roger | Willetts, David |
| Skeet, Sir Trevor | Wilshire, David |
| Smith, Sir Dudley (Warwick) | Winterton, Mrs Ann (Congleton) |
| Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield) | Winterton, Nicholas (Macc'f'ld) |
| Soames, Nicholas | Wolfson, Mark |
| Spencer, Sir Derek | Wood, Timothy |
| Spicer, Sir James (W Dorset) | Yeo, Tim |
| Spicer, Michael (S Worcs) | Young, Rt Hon Sir George |
| Spink, Dr Robert | |
| Spring, Richard | Tellers for the Ayes: |
| Sproat, Iain | Mr. Sydney Chapman and |
| Squire, Robin (Hornchurch) | Mr. Timothy Kirkhope. |
| NOES | |
| Abbott, Ms Diane | Brown, N (N'c'tle upon Tyne E) |
| Adams, Mrs Irene | Burden, Richard |
| Ainger, Nick | Byers, Stephen |
| Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE) | Caborn, Richard |
| Allen, Graham | Callaghan, Jim |
| Anderson, Donald (Swansea E) | Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge) |
| Anderson, Ms Janet (Ros'dale) | Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V) |
| Armstrong, Hilary | Campbell-Savours, D N |
| Ashton, Joe | Canavan, Dennis |
| Austin-Walker, John | Cann, Jamie |
| Banks, Tony (Newham NW) | Chisholm, Malcolm |
| Barnes, Harry | Church, Judith |
| Barron, Kevin | Clapham, Michael |
| Battle, John | Clark, Dr David (South Shields) |
| Bayley, Hugh | Clarke, Eric (Midlothian) |
| Bell, Stuart | Clarke, Tom (Monklands W) |
| Benn, Rt Hon Tony | Clelland, David |
| Bennett, Andrew F | Clwyd, Mrs Ann |
| Bermingham, Gerald | Coffey, Ann |
| Berry, Roger | Cohen, Harry |
| Betts, Clive | Connarty, Michael |
| Blunkett, David | Cook, Frank (Stockton N) |
| Boyes, Roland | Cook, Robin (Livingston) |
| Bray, Dr Jeremy | Corbett, Robin |
| Brown, Gordon (Dunfermline E) | Corbyn, Jeremy |
| Corston, Jean | Jones, Jon Owen (Cardiff C) |
| Cousins, Jim | Jones, Lynne (B'ham S O) |
| Cox, Tom | Jones, Martyn (Clwyd, SW) |
| Cunningham, Jim (Covy SE) | Jowell, Tessa |
| Cunningham, Rt Hon Dr John | Kaufman, Rt Hon Gerald |
| Dalyell, Tam | Keen, Alan |
| Davies, Bryan (Oldham C'tral) | Kennedy, Jane (Lpool Brdgn) |
| Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli) | Khabra, Piara S |
| Davies, Ron (Caerphilly) | kilfoyle, Peter |
| Davis, Terry (B'ham, H'dge H'I) | Lestor, Joan (Eccles) |
| Denham, John | Lewis, Terry |
| Dewar, Donald | Liddell, Mrs Helen |
| Dixon, Don | Litherland, Robert |
| Dobson, Frank | Livingstone, Ken |
| Donohoe, BrianH | Lloyd, Tony (Stretford) |
| Dowd, Jim | Llwyd, Elfyn |
| Dunnachie, Jimmy | McAllion, John |
| Dunwoody, Mrs Gwyneth | McAvoy, Thomas |
| Eagle, Ms Angela | McCartney, Ian |
| Eastham, Ken | Macdonald, Calum |
| Enright, Derek | McFall, John |
| Etherington, Bill | McGrady, Eddie |
| Evans, John (St Helens N) | McKelvey, William |
| Ewing, Mrs Margaret | Mackinlay, Andrew |
| Fatchett, Derek | McLeish, Henry |
| Field, Frank (Birkenhead) | McMaster, Gordon |
| Fisher, Mark | McNamara, Kevin |
| Flynn, Paul | MacShane, Denis |
| Foster, Rt Hon Derek | McWilliam, John |
| Foulkes, George | Madden, Max |
| Fraser, John | Mahon, Alice |
| Fyfe, Maria | Mandelson, Peter |
| Galloway, George | Marek, Dr John |
| Gapes, Mike | Marshall, David (Shettleston) |
| George, Bruce | Marshall, Jim (Leicester, S) |
| Gerrard, Neil | Martin, Michael J (Springburn) |
| Gilbert, Rt Hon Dr John | Martlew, Eric |
| Godsiff, Roger | Maxton, John |
| Golding, Mrs Llin | Meacher, Michael |
| Gordon, Mildred | Meale, Alan |
| Graham, Thomas | Michael, Alun |
| Grant, Bernie (Tottenham) | Michie, Bill (Sheffield Heeley) |
| Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S) | Milburn, Alan |
| Griffiths, Win (Bridgend) | Miller, Andrew |
| Grocott, Bruce | Mitchell, Austin (Gt Grimsby) |
| Gunnell, John | Moonie, Dr Lewis |
| Hain, Peter | Morgan, Rhodri |
| Hall, Mike | Morley, Elliot |
| Hanson, David | Morris, Rt Hon Alfred (Wy'nshawe) |
| Hardy, Peter | Morris, Estelle (B'ham Yardley) |
| Harman, Ms Harriet | Mowlam, Marjorie |
| Hattersley, Rt Hon Roy | Mudie, George |
| Henderson, Doug | Mullin, Chris |
| Heppell, John | Oakes, Rt Hon Gordon |
| Hill, Keith (Streatham) | O'Brien, Mike (Nee W) |
| Hinchliffe, David | O'Brien, Bill (Normanton) |
| Hodge, Margaret | O'Hara, Edward |
| Hoey, Kate | Olner, Bill |
| Hogg, Norman (Cumbernauld) | O'Neill, Martin |
| Home Robertson, John | Orme, Rt Hon Stanley |
| Hood, Jimmy | Parry, Robert |
| Hoon, Geoffrey | Patchett, Terry |
| Howarth, George (Knowsley N) | Pickthall, Colin |
| Howarth, Dr.Kim (Pontypridd) | Pike, Peter L |
| Hoyle, Doug | Pope, Greg |
| Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N) | Powell, Ray (Ogmore) |
| Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen N) | Prentice, Bridget (Lew'm E) |
| Hughes, Roy (Newport E) | Prentice, Gordon (Pendle) |
| Hutton, John | Prescott, Rt Hon John |
| Illsley, Eric | Primarolo, Dawn |
| Ingram, Adam | Purchase, Ken |
| Jackson, Glenda (H'stead) | Quin, Ms Joyce |
| Jackson, Helen (Shef'ld, H) | Radice, Giles |
| Jamieson, David | Randall, Stuart |
| Janner, Greville | Raynsford, Nick |
| Jones, Barry (Alyn and D'side) | Reid, Dr John |
| Robertson, George (Hamilton) | Sutcliffe, Gerry |
| Robinson, Geoffrey (Co'try NW) | Taylor, Mrs Ann (Dewsbury) |
| Roche, Mrs Barbara | Thompson, Jack (Wansbeck) |
| Rogers, Allan | Timms, Stephen |
| Ross, Ernie (Dundee W) | Turner, Dennis |
| Rowlands, Ted | Vaz, Keith |
| Ruddock, Joan | Walker, Rt Hon Sir Harold |
| Salmond, Alex | Walley, Joan |
| Sedgemore, Brian | Wardell, Gareth (Gower) |
| Sheerman, Barry | Wareing, Robert N |
| Sheldon, Rt Hon Robert | Watson, Mike |
| Shore, Rt Hon Peter | Welsh, Andrew |
| Short, Clare | Wicks, Malcolm |
| Simpson, Alan | Wigley, Dafydd |
| SKinner, Dennis | Williams, Rt Hon Alan (SW'n W) |
| Smith, Andrew (Oxford E) | Wiliams, Alan W (Carmarthen) |
| Smith, Chris (Isl'ton S & F'sbury) | Wilson Brian |
| Smith, Llew (Blaenau Gwent) | Winnick, David |
| Soley, Clive | Wise, Audrey |
| Worthington, Tony | |
| Spearing, Nigel | Wray, Jimmy |
| Spellar, John | Wright, Dr Tony |
| Squire, Rachel (Dunfermline W) | Young, David (Bolton SE) |
| Stevenson, George | |
| Stott, Ronger | Tellers for the Noes: |
| Strang, Dr. Gavin | Mr. John Cummings and |
| Straw, Jack | Mr. Joe Benton. |
§ Question accordingly agreed to.
10.27 pm§ Mrs. Gwyneth Dunwoody (Crewe and Nantwich)On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. You will note from today's Order Paper that European Standing Committee A met at 10.30 am to consider the reform of the agrimonetary system, on which there has just been a vote. You will also be aware that when the House of Commons set up European Standing Committees A and B, we were given a clear undertaking that part of the reason for moving European legislation from the Floor of the House to the Standing Committee system was that the House of Commons would have the right to examine these important matters in considerable detail. For example, the issue we were considering today not only affects the whole farming community, but involves large sums of money. We were assured that the House of Commons would not take a vote until the matter had been considered by the European Standing Committee.
This morning, the Committee met and examined the matter before us tonight. We were somewhat astonished to find that a motion to take note appeared on the Order Paper, even though the Committee had not sat and considered the matter. For your information, Mr. Deputy Speaker, the Committee defeated the measure this morning.
Therefore, with the greatest respect, I want some explanation from you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, of why the House of Commons is being treated with such arrant contempt. It is painfully clear that there is absolutely no point in having the machinery of the European Standing Committees—with the specific undertaking that we will have the right to examine legislation before it is voted on in the Floor of the House—because the Government have pushed through a measure tonight, in the knowledge that the Committee voted against it this morning.
1041 It is contemptuous of our procedures and it is arrogant, not of the Ministers concerned, but of the Government Chief Whip, and we want an explanation, otherwise there is no serious point in manning the European Standing Committees.
§ Mr. Nigel Spearing (Newham, South)Further to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
§ Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Geoffrey Lofthouse)Order. Let me deal with that point of order first.
Obviously, the hon. Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Mrs. Dunwoody) and the Opposition feel somewhat aggrieved about what has taken place, but nevertheless I must advise the hon. Lady that the Chair must abide by the Standing Orders. I must inform her that Standing Orders Nos. 102(8) and 102(9) permit a motion to be decided forthwith even if the Standing Committee came to no resolution. Further to that, the Chair must consider nothing outside the Standing Orders.
§ Mr. SpearingFurther to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerIs it the same point of order? If so, I have dealt with it. I cannot say anything further to it. I have just dealt with the powers—
§ Mr. Spearingrose—
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerOrder. I have just dealt with the powers of the Chair, and there can be nothing further to that point of order. If the hon. Gentleman wishes to raise a different point of order, I will deal with it, but if it is the same I will not accept it. Is it a different point of order?
§ Mr. SpearingIt is different. If, in your judgment, Mr. Deputy Speaker, you think that it not different, I would be pleased if you would inform me. [Laughter.]
Sir, a few years ago, another point arose about Committee proceedings. A motion that was indeed passed on a Division by a Committee had not been printed and therefore its merits were not capable of being assessed by Members of the House before the debate took place on the Floor. I put it to you, therefore, that whatever may be said in Standing Orders, consideration perhaps should be given to give the opportunity for Members—
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerOrder. There is very little difference, and it is the same answer. [Laughter.]