HC Deb 06 December 1994 vol 251 cc271-83

MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER put forthwith the Questions necessary to dispose of proceedings on the motion relating to further expenditure, pursuant to Order [29 November].

Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House welcomes the spending plans announced in the Budget statement by Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer on 29th November; congratulates Her Majesty's Government on its firm control over public expenditure, its drive for greater efficiency and economy in all areas of government, and its progress in reducing the share of national income taken by the public sector while improving key public services; and commends the Government's determination to maintain sound public finances.—[Mr. Andrew Mitchell.]

Amendment proposed to the Question, to leave out from "House" to the end of the Question and to add instead thereof: 'notes the real cuts in the Government's new spending plans set out in the Budget Statement presented by Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer on 29th November, which are the result of the complete failure of Government policies to achieve either high employment or the basis for sustainable high economic growth; regrets the absence of any strategy for using public investment to help generate growth and employment, and the derisory progress made in attracting private finance to public projects; condemns the unacceptable cuts to key public services and public investment programmes, while forcing public sector workers to continue to pay the price of the Government's economic failure; and condemns the betrayal of election pledges which will savage transport and housing programmes, slash the employment budget, especially training, further reduce support for local authorities, and leave increasing numbers of fellow citizens in poverty.'—[Mr. Derek Foster.]

Question put, That the amendment be made:—

The House divided: Ayes 279, Noes 325.

Division No. 11] [23.07 pm
Abbott, Ms Diane Ashton, Joe
Adams, Mrs Irene Austin-Waker, John
Ainger, Nick Banks, Tony (Newham NW)
Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE) Barnes, Harry
Allen, Graham Barron, Kevin
Alton, David Battle, John
Anderson, Donald (Swansea E) Bayley, Hugh
Anderson, Ms Janet (Ros'dale) Beckett, Rt Hon Margaret
Armstrong, Hilary Beith, Rt Hon A J
Ashdown, Rt Hon Paddy Bell, Stuart
Benn, Rt Hon Tony Fraser, John
Bennett, Andrew F Fyfe, Maria
Benton, Joe Gabraith, Sam
Berrningharn, Gerald Galloway, George
Berry, Roger Gapes, Mike
Betts, Clive Garrett, John
Blair, Rt Hon Tony George, Bruce
Blunkett, David Gerrard, Neil
Boateng, Paul Gilbert, Rt Hon Dr John
Boyes, Roland Godman, Dr Norman A
Bradley, Keith Godsiff, Roger
Bray, Dr Jeremy Golding, Mrs Llin
Brown, Gordon (Dunfermine E) Gordon, Mildred
Brown, N (N'c'tle upon Tyne E) Graham, (Thottenham)
Bruce, Malcolm (Gordon) Grant, Bernie (Tottenham)
Burden, Richard Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S)
Byers, Stephen Griffiths, Win (Bridgend)
Cabom, Richard Grocott, Bruce
Callaghan, Jim Gunnell, John
Campbell, Menzies (Fife NE) Hain, Peter
Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge) Hall, Mike
Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V) Hanson, David
Campbell-Savours, D N Hardy, Peter
Cann, Jamie Harman, Ms Harriet
Carlile, Alexander (Montgomry) Harvey, Nick
Chidgey, David Hattersley, Rt Hon Roy
Chisholm, Malcolm Henderson, Doug
Church, Judith Hendron, Dr Joe
Clapham, Michael Heppell, John
Clark, Dr David (South Shields) Hi, Keith (Streatham)
Clarke, Tom (Monklands W) Hinchliffe, David
Clelland, David Hodge, Margaret
Ctwyd, Mrs Ann Hoey, Kate
Coffey, Ann Hogg, Norman (Cumbemauld)
Cohen, Harry Home Robertson, John
Connarty, Michael Hood, Jimmy
Cook, Frank (Stockton N) Hoon, Geoffrey
Cook, Robin (Livingston) Howarth, George (Knowsley N)
Corbett, Robin Howells, Dr. Kim (Pontypridd)
Corbyn Jeremy Hoyle, Doug
Corston, Jean Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N)
Cousins, Jim Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen N)
Cox, Tom Hughes, Roy (Newport E)
Cummings, John Hughes, Simon (Southwark)
Cunningham, Jim (Covy SE) Hume, John
Cunningham, Rt Hon Dr John Hutton, John
Dafis, Cynog Illsley, Eric
Dalyell, Tarn Ingram, Adam
Darling, Alistair Jackson, Glenda (H'Stead)
Davidson, Ian Jackson, Helen (Shefld, H)
Davies, Bryan (Oldham C'tral) Jamieson, David
Davies, Ron (Caerphilly) Johnston, Sir Russell
Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llnelli) Jones, Barry (Alyn and D'side)
Davis, Terry (B'ham, H'dge H'I) Jones, leuan Wyn (Ynys Mon)
Denham, John Jones, Lynne (B'ham S O)
Dewar, Donald Jones, Martyn (Clwyd, SW)
Dixon, Don Jones, Nigel (Cheltenham)
Dobson, Frank Jowell, Tessa
Donohoe, Brian H Kaufman, Rt Hon Gerald
Dowd, Jim Keen, Alan
Dumachie, Jimmy Kennedy, Charles (Ross, C&S)
Dunwoody, Mrs Gwyneth Kennedy, Jane (Lpool Brdgn)
Eagle, Ms Angela Khabra, Piara S
Eastham, Ken Klfoyle, Peter
Enright, Derek Kinnock, R Hon Neil (Islwyn)
Etherington, Bill Kirkwood, Archy
Evans, John (St Helens N) Lestor, Joan (Eccles)
Ewing, Mrs Margaret Lewis, Terry
Fatchett, Derek Liddell, Mrs Helen
Field, Andrew Litherland, Robert
Field, Frank (Birkenhead) Livingstone, Ken
Fisher, Mark Lloyd, Tony (Stretford)
Ftynn, Paul Llwyd, Elfyn
Foster, Don (Bath) Loyden, Eddie
Foster, Rt Hon Derek Macdonald. Calum
Foulkes, George Mackinlay, Andrew
Maclennman, Robert Reid, Dr John
Madden, Max Rendel, David
Maddock, Diana Robertson, George (Hamilton)
Mahon, Alice Robinson, Geoffrey (Co'try NW)
Mallon, Seamus Robinson, Peter (Belfast E)
Mandelson, Peter Roche, Mrs Barbara
Marek, DrJohn Rogers, Allan
Marshall, David (Shettleston) Rooker, Jeff
Marshall, Jim (Leicester, S) Rooney, Terry
Martin, Michael J (Springbum) Ross, Ernie (Dundee W)
Martlew, Eric Rowlands, Ted
Maxton, John Ruddock, Joan
McAllion, John Salmond, Alex
McAvoy, Thomas Sedgemore, Brian
McCrea, Rev William Sheerman, Barry
McFall, John Sheldon, Rt Hon Robert
McGrady, Eddie Shore, Rt Hon Peter
McKelvey, William Short, Clare
McLeish, Henry Simpson, Alan
McMaster, Gordon Skinner, Dennis
McNamara, Kevin Smith, Andrew (Oxford E)
McWilliam, John Smith, Chris (Isl'ton S & F'sbury)
Meacher, Michael Smith, Llew (Blaenau Gwent)
Meale, Alan Snape, Peter
Michael, Alun Soley, Clive
Michie, Bill (Sheffield Heeley) Spearing, Nigel
Michie, Mrs Ray (Argyll & Bute) Spellar, John
Milburn, Alan Squire, Rachel (Dunfermline W)
Miller, Andrew Steinberg, Gerry
Mitchell, Austin (Gt Grimsby) Stevenson, George
Moonie, Dr Lewis Stott, Roger
Morgan, Rhodri Strang, Dr. Gavin
Morley, Elliot Straw, Jack
Morris, Estelle (B'ham Yardley) Sutdiffe, Gerry
Morris, Rt Hon Alfred (Wy'nshawe) Taylor, Matthew (Truro)
Morris, Rt Hon John (Abemavon) Taylor, Mrs Ann (Dewsbury)
Mowlam, Marjorie Thompson, Jack (Wansbeck)
Mudie, George Timms, Stephen
Mullin, Chris Tipping, Paddy
Murphy, Paul Turner, Dennis
O'Brien, Mike (N W'kshire) Tyler, Paul
O'Brien, William (Norrmanton) Vaz, Keith
C'Hara, Edward Walker, Rt Hon Sir Harold
O'Neill, Martin Wallace, James
Oakes, Rt Hon Gordon Walley, Joan
Olner, Bill Wardell, Gareth (Gower)
Orme, Rt Hon Stanley Wareing, Robert N
Paisley, The Reverend Ian Watson, Mike
Parry, Robert Welsh, Andrew
Patchett, Terry Wicks, Malcolm
Pendry, Tom Wigley, Dafydd
Pickthall, Colin Wiliams, Alan W (Carmarthen)
Pike, Peter L Wliams, Rt Hon Alan (Sw'n W)
Powell, Ray (Ogmore) Wibon, Brian
Prentice, Bridget (Lew'rn E) Wirmick, David
Prentice, Gordon (Pendle) Wise, Audrey
Prescott, Rt Hon John Worthington, Tony
Primarolo, Dawn Wray, Jimmy
Purchase, Ken Wright, Dr Tony
Quin, Ms Joyce young, David (Boton SE)
Radice, Giles
Randall, Stuart Tellers for the Ayes:
Raynsford, Nick Mr. Eric Clarke and
Redmond, Martin Mr. Jon Owen Jones.
Ainsworth, Peter (East Surrey) Ashby, David
Aitken.Rt Hon Jonathan Aspinwall, Jack
Alexander, Richard Atkins, Robert
Alison, Rt Hon Michael (Selby) Atkinson, David (Bour'moulh E)
Allason, Rupert (Torbay) Atkinson, Peter (Hexham)
Amess, David Baker, Nicholas (Dorset North)
Ancram, Michael Baker, Rt Hon K (Mole Valley)
Arbuthnot, James Baldry, Tony
Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham) Banks, Matthew (Southport)
Arnold, Sir Thomas (Hazel Grv) Banks, Robert (Harrogate)
Bates, Michael Fishburn, Dudley
Batiste, Spencer Forman, Nigel
Bellingham, Henry Forsyth, Michael (Stirling)
Bendall, Vivian Forth, Eric
Beresford, Sir Paul Fowler, Rt Hon Sir Norman
Biffen, Rt Hon John Fox, Dr Liarn (Woodspring)
Bonsor, Sir Nicholas Fox, Sir Marcus (Shipley)
Booth, Hartley Freeman, Rt Hon Roger
Boswell, Tim French, Douglas
Bottomley, Peter (Eltham) Fry, Sir Peter
Bottomley, Rt Hon Virginia Gale, Roger
Bowden, Sir Andrew Gallie, Phil
Bowis, John Gardiner, Sir George
Boyson, Rt Hon Sir Rhodes Garel-Jones, Rt Hon Tristan
Brandreth, Gyles Garnier, Edward
Brazier, Julian Gill, Christopher
Bright, Sir Graham Gillan, Cheryl
Brooke, Rt Hon Peter Goodlad, Rt Hon Alastair
Brown, M (Brigg & Cl'thorpes) Goodson-Wickes, Dr Charles
Browning, Mrs. Angela Gorman, Mrs Teresa
Bruce, Ian (Dorset) Gorst, Sir John
Budgen, Nicholas Grant, Sir A (Cambs SW)
Burns, Simon Greenway, Harry (Ealing N)
Burt, Alistair Greenway, John (Ryedale)
Butcher, John Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth, N)
Butler, Peter Grylls, Sir Michael
Butterfill, John Gummer, Rt Hon John Selwyn
Carlisle, John (Luton North) Hague, William
Carlisle, Sir Kenneth (Lincoln) Hamilton, Neil (Tatton)
Carrington, Matthew Hamilton, Rt Hon Sir Archibald
Cash, William Hampson, Dr Keith
Channon, Rt Hon Paul Hanley, Rt Hon Jeremy
Chapman, Sydney Hannam, Sir John
Churchill, Mr Harg reaves, Andrew
Clappison, James Harris, David
Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford) Haselhurst, Alan
Clarke, Rt Hon Kenneth (Ru'clif) Hawkins, Nick
Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Hawksley, Warren
Coe, Sebastian Hayes, Jerry
Colvin, Michael Heald, Oliver
Congdon, David Heath, Rt Hon Sir Edward
Coombs, Anthony (Wyre For'st) Heathcoat-Amory, David
Coombs, Simon (Swindon) Hendry, Charles
Cope, Rt Hon Sir John Heseltine, Rt Hon Michael
Cormack, Patrick Hicks, Robert
Couchman, James Higgins, Rt Hon Sir Terence
Cran, James Hill, James (Southampton Test)
Critchley, Julian Hogg, Rt Hon Douglas (G'tham)
Currie, Mrs Edwina (S D'by'ire) Horam., John
Curry, David (Skipton & Ripon) Hordern, Rt Hon Sir Peter
Davies, Quentin (Stamford) Howard, Rt Hon Michael
Davis, David (Boothferry) Howarth, Alan (Stnat'rd-on-A)
Day, Stephen Howell, Rt Hon David (G'dford)
Deva, Nirj Joseph Howell, Sir Ralph (N Norfolk)
Devlin, Tim Hughes, Robert G (Harrow W)
Dicks, Terry Hunt, Rt Hon David (Wirral W)
Dorrel, Rt Hon Stephen Hunt Sir John (Ravensbourne)
Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James Hunter, Andrew
Dover, Den Hurd, Rt Hon Douglas
Duncan Smith, Iain Jack, Michael
Duncan, Alan Jackson, Robert (Wantage)
Dunn, Bob Jenkin, Bernard
Durant, Sir Anthony Jessel, Toby
Dykes, Hugh Johnson Smith, Sir Geoffrey
Eggar, Tim Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N)
Elletson, Harold Jones, Robert B (W Hertfdshr)
Emery, Rt Hon Sir Peter Jopling, Rt Hon Michael
Evans, David (Welwyn Hattield) Kellett-Bowman, Dame Elaine
Evans, Jonathan (Brecon) Key, Robert
Evans, Nigel (Ribble Valley) Kilfedder, Sir James
Evans, Roger (Monmouth) King, Rt Hon Tom
Evennett, David Kirkhope, Timothy
Faber, David Knapman, Roger
Fabricant, Michael Knight, Dame Jill (Bir'm E'st'n)
Fenner, Dame Peggy Knight, Greg (Derby N)
Field, Barry (Isle of Wight) Knight, Mrs Angela (Erewash)
Knox, Sir David Rifkind, Rt Hon Malcolm
Kynoch, George (Kincardine) Robathan, Andrew
Lait, Mrs Jacqui Roberts, Rt Hon Sir Wyn
Lamont, Rt Hon Norman Robertson, Raymond (Ab'd'n S)
Lang, Rt Hon Ian Robinson, Mark (Somerton)
Lawrence, Sir Ivan Roe, Mrs Marion (Broxbourne)
Legg, Barry Rowe, Andrew (Mid Kent)
Leigh, Edward Rumbold, Rt Hon Dame Angela
Lennox-Boyd, Sir Mark Ryder, Rt Hon Richard
Lester, Jim (Broxtowe) Sackville, Tom
Lidington, David Sainsbury, Rt Hon Tim
Lightbown, David Scott, Rt Hon Nicholas
Lilley, Rt Hon Peter Shaw, David (Dover)
Lloyd, Rt Hon Peter (Fareham) Shaw, Sir Giles (Pudsey)
Lord, Michael Shephard, Rt Hon Gillian
Luff, Peter
Lyel, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas Shepherd, Colin (Hereford)
MacGregor, Rt Hon John Shepherd, Richard (Aldridge)
Shersby, Michael
MacKay, Andrew Sims, Roger
Skeet, Sir Trevor
Maclean, David Smith, Sir Dudley (Warwick)
Madel, Sir David Smith, Tim (Beaconstfield)
Maitland, Lady Olga Soames, Nicholas
Speed, Sir Keith
Major, Rt Hon John Spencer, Sir Derek
Majone, Gerald Spicer, Michael (S Worcs)
Mans, Keith Spicer, Sir James (W Dorset)
Marland, Paul Spink, Dr Robert
Marlow, Tony Spring, Richard
Marshall, John (Hendon S) Sproat, Iain
Marshall, Sir Michael (Arundel) Squire, Robin (Hornchurch)
Martin, David (Portsmouth S) Stanley, Rt Hon Sir John
Mates, Michael Steen, Anthony
Mawhinney, Rt Hon Dr Brian Stephen, Michael
Mayhew, Rt Hon Sir Patrick Stem, Michael
McLoughlin, Patrick Stewart, Allan
McNair-Wilson, Sir Patrick Streeter, Gary
Mellor, Rt Hon David Sumberg, David
Merchant, Piers Sweeney, Walter
Mills, Iain Sykes, John
Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling) Tapsell, Sir Peter
Mitchell, Sir David (Hants NW) Taylor, Ian (Esher)
Moate, Sir Roger Taylor, John M (Solihull)
Monro, Sir Hector Taylor, Sir Teddy (Southend, E)
Montgomery, Sir Fergus Temple-Morris, Peter
Moss, Malcolm Thomason, Roy
Needham, Rt Hon Richard Thompson, Patrick (Norwich N)
Nelson, Anthony Thompson, Sir Donald (C'er V)
Neubert, Sir Michael Thornton, Sir Malcolm
Newton, Rt Hon Tony Thumham, Peter
Nicholls, Patrick Townend, John (Bridlington)
Nicholson, David (Taunton) Townsend, Cyril D (Bexl'yh'th)
Nicholson, Emma (Devon West) Tracey, Richard
Norris, Steve Tredinnick, David
Onslow, Rt Hon Sir Cranley Trend, Michael
Oppenheim, Phillip Trotter, Neville
Ottaway, Richard Twinn, Dr Ian
Page, Richard Vaughan, Sir Gerard
Paice, James Viggers, Peter
Patrick, Sir Irvine Waldegrave, Rt Hon William
Patten, Rt Hon John Walden, George
Pattie, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey Waller, Bill (N Tayside)
Pawsey, James Waller, Gary
Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth Ward, John
Pickles, Eric Wardle, Charles (Bexhill)
Porter, Barry (Wirral S) Waterson, Nigel
Porter, David (Waveney) Watts, John
Portillo, Rt Hon Michael Wells, Bowen
Powell, William (Corby) Wheeler, Rt Hon Sir John
Rathbone, Tim Whitney, Ray
Redwood, Rt Hon John Whittingdale, John
Renton, Rt Hon Tim Widdecombe, Ann
Richards, Rod Wiggin, Sir Jerry
Riddick, Graham Wilkinson, John
Willetts, David Yeo, Tim
Wilshire, David Young, Rt Hon Sir George
Winterton, Mrs Ann (Congleton)
Tellers for the Noes:
Winterton, Nicholas (Macc'fld) Mr. Timothy Wood and
Wolfson, Mark Mr. Derek Conway

Question accordingly negatived.

Main Question put:

The House divided: Ayes 324, Noes 297.

Division No. 12] [23.20 pm
Ainsworth, Peter (East Surrey) Conway, Derek
Aitken, Rt Hon Jonathan Coombs, Anthony (Wyre For'st)
Alexander, Richard Coombs, Simon (Swindon)
Alison, Rt Hon Michael (Selby) Cope, Rt Hon Sir John
Allason, Rupert (Torbay) Cormack, Patrick
Amess, David Couchman, James
Ancram, Michael Cran, James
Arbuthnot, James Critchley, Julian
Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham) Currie, Mrs Edwina (S D' by'ire)
Arnold, Sir Thomas (Hazel Grv) Curry, David (Skipton & Ripon)
Ashby, David Davies, Quentin (Stamford)
Aspinwal, Jack Davis, David (Boothferry)
Atkins, Robert Day, Stephen
Atkinson, David (Bour'mouth E) Deva, Nirj Joseph
Atkinson, Peter (Hexham) Devlin, Tim
Baker, Nicholas (Dorset North) Dicks, Terry
Baker, Rt Hon K (Mole Valley) Dorrell, Rt Hon Stephen
Baldry, Tony Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James
Banks, Matthew (Soulhport) Dover, Den
Banks, Robert (Harrogate) Duncan Smith, Iain
Bates, Michael Duncan, Alan
Batiste, Spencer Dunn, Bob
Bellingham, Henry Durant, Sir Anthony
Bendall, Vivian Dykes, Hugh
Beresford, Sir Paul Eggar, Tim
Biffen, Rt Hon John Elletson, Harold
Bonsor, Sir Nicholas Emery, Rt Hon Sir Peter
Booth, Hartley Evans, David (Welwyn Hatfield)
Boswell, Tim Evans, Jonathan (Brecon)
Bottomley, Peter (Eltham) Evans, Nigel (Ribble Valley)
Bottomley, Rt Hon Virginia Evans, Roger (Monmouth)
Bowden, Sir Andrew Evernett, David
Bowis, John Faber, David
Boyson, Rt Hon Sir Rhodes Fabricant, Michael
Brandreth, Gyles Fenner, Dame Peggy
Brazier, Julian Field, Barry (Isle of Wight)
Bright, Sir Graham Fishbum, Dudley
Brooke, Rt Hon Peter Forman, Nigel
Brown, M (Brigg & Cl'thorpes) Forsyth, Michael (Stirling)
Browning, Mrs. Angela Forth, Eric
Bruce, Ian (Dorset) Fowler, Rt Hon Sir Norman
Budgen, Nicholas Fox, Dr Liam (Woodspring)
Burns, Simon Fox, Sir Marcus (Shipley)
Burt, Alistair Freeman, Rt Hon Roger
Butcher, John French, Douglas
Butler, Peter Fry, Sir Peter
Butterfill, John Gale, Roger
Carlisle, John (Luton North) Gallie, Phil
Carlisle, Sir Kenneth (Lincoln) Gardiner, Sir George
Carrington, Matthew Garel-Jones, Rt Hon Tristan
Cash, William Gamier, Edward
Channon, Rt Hon Paul Gill, Christopher
Churchill, Mr Gillan, Cheryl
Clappison, James Goodlad, Rt Hon Alastair
Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford) Goodson-Wckes, Dr Charles
Clarke, Rt Hon Kenneth (Ru'clif) Gorman, Mrs Teresa
Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Gorst, Sir John
Coe, Sebastian Grant, Sir A (Cambs SW)
Colvin, Michael Greenway, Harry (Ealing N)
Congdon, David Greenway, John (Ryedale)
Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth, N) Marland, Paul
Grylls, Sir Michael Marlow, Tony
Gummer, Rt Hon John Setwyn Marshall, John (Hendon S)
Hague, William Marshall, Sir Michael (Arundel)
Hamilton, Neil (Tatton) Martin, David (Portsmouth S)
Hamilton, Rt Hon Sir Archibald Mates, Michael
Hampson, Dr Keith Mawhinney, Rt Hon Dr Brian
Hanley, Rt Hon Jeremy Mayhew, Rt Hon Sir Patrick
Hannam, Sir John McLoughlin, Patrick
Hargreaves, Andrew McNair-Wilson, Sir Patrick
Harris, David Mellor, Rt Hon David
Haselhurst, Alan Merchant Piers
Hawkins, Nick Mills, Iain
Hawksley, Warren Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling)
Hayes, Jerry Mitchell, Sir David (Hants NW)
Heald, Oliver Moate, Sir Roger
Heath, Rt Hon Sir Edward Monro, Sir Hector
Heathcoat-Amory, David Montgomery, Sir Fergus
Hendry, Chailes Moss, Malcolm
Heseltine, Rt Hon Michael Needham, Rt Hon Richard
Hicks, Robert Nelson, Anthony
Higgins, Rt Hon Sir Terence Neubert, Sir Michael
Hill, James (Southampton Test) Newton, Rt Hon Tony
Hogg, Rt Hon Douglas (G'tham) Nicholls, Patrick
Horam, John Nicholson, David (Taunton)
Hordem, Rt Hon Sir Peter Nicholson, Emma (Devon West)
Howard, Rt Hon Michael Norris, Steve
Howarth, Alan (Strat'rd-on-A) Onslow, Rt Hon Sir Cranley
Howell, Rt Hon David (G'dford) Oppenheim, Philip
Howell, Sir Ralph (N Norfolk) Ottaway, Richard
Hughes, Robert G (Harrow W) Page, Richard
Hunt, Rt Hon David (Wirral W) Paice, James
Hunt, Sir John (Ravensbourne) Patnick, Sir Irvine
Hunter, Andrew Patten, Rt Hon John
Hurd, Rt Hon Douglas Pattie, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey
Jack, Michael Pawsey, James
Jackson, Robert (Wantage) Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth
Jenkin, Bernard Pickles, Eric
Jessel, Toby Porter, Barry (Wirral S)
Johnson Smith, Sir Geoffrey Porter, David (Waveney)
Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N) Portillo, Rt Hon Michael
Jones, Robert B (W Hertfdshr) Powell, William (Corby)
Jopling, Rt Hon Michael Rathbone, Tim
Kellett-Bowman, Dame Elaine Redwood, Rt Hon John
Key, Robert Renton, Rt Hon Tim
King, Rt Hon Tom Richards, Rod
Kirkhope, Timothy Riddick, Graham
Knapman, Roger Rifkind, Rt Hon Malcolm
Knight, Dame Jill (Bir'm E'sf'n) Robathan, Andrew
Knight Greg (Derby N) Roberts, Rt Hon Sir Wyn
Knight, Mrs Angela (Erewash) Robertson, Raymond (Ab'd'n S)
Knox, Sir David Robinson, Mark (Somerton)
Kynoch, George (Kincardine) Roe, Mrs Marion (Broxbourne)
Lait, Mrs Jacqui Rowe, Andrew (Mid Kent)
Lamont, Rt Hon Norman Rumbold, Rt Hon Dame Angela
Lang, Rt Hon Ian Ryder, Rt Hon Richard
Lawrence, Sir Ivan Sackville, Tom
Legg, Barry Salisbury, Rt Hon Tim
Leigh, Edward Scott, Rt Hon Nicholas
Lennox-Boyd, Sir Mark Shaw, David (Dover)
Lester, Jim (Broxtowe) Shaw, Sir Giles (Pudsey)
Lidington, David Shephard, Rt Hon Gillian
Lightbown, David Shepherd, Colin (Hereford)
Lilley, Rt Hon Peter Shepherd, Richard (Aldridge)
Lloyd, Rt Hon Peter (Fareham) Shersby, Michael
Lord, Michael Sims, Roger
Luff, Peter Skeet, Sir Trevor
Lyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas Smith, Sir Dudley (Warwick)
MacGregor, Rt Hon John Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield)
MacKay, Andrew Soames, Nicholas
Maclean, David Speed, Sir Keith
Madel, Sir David Spencer, Sir Derek
Maitland, Lady Olga Spicer, Michael (S Worcs)
Major, Rt Hon John Spicer, Sir James (W Dorset)
Malone, Gerald Spink, Dr Robert
Mans, Keith Spring, Richard
Sproat, Iain Vaughan, Sir Gerard
Squire, Robin (Hornchurch) Viggers, Peter
Stanley, Rt Hon Sir John Waldegrave, Rt Hon William
Steen, Anthony Walden, George
Stephen, Michael Walker, Bill (N Tayside)
Stem, Michael Waller, Gary
Stewart, Allan Ward, John
Streeter, Gary Wardle, Charles (Bexhill)
Sumberg, David Waterson, Nigel
Sweeney, Walter Watts, John
Sykes, John Wells, Bowen
Tapsell, Sir Peter Wheeler, Rt Hon Sir John
Taylor, Ian (Esher) Whitney, Ray
Taylor, John M (Solihull) Whittingdale, John
Taylor, Sir Teddy (Southend, E) Widdeoombe, Ann
Temple-Morris, Peter Wiggin, Sir Jerry
Thomason, Roy Wilkinson, John
Thompson, Patrick (Norwich N) Willetts, David
Thompson, Sir Donald (C'er V) Wilshire, David
Thornton, Sir Malcolm Winterton, Mrs Ann (Congleton)
Thurnham, Peter Winterton, Nicholas (Macc'fld)
Townend, John (Bridlington) Wolfson, Mark
Townsend, Cyril D (Baxl'yh'th) Yeo, Tim
Tracey, Richard Young, Rt Hon Sir George
Tredinnick, David
Trend, Michael Tellers for the Ayes:
Trotter, Neville Mr. Sydney Chapman and
Twinn, Dr Ian Mr. Timothy Wood
Abbott, Ms Diane Chisholm, Malcolm
Adams, Mrs Irene Church, Judith
Ainger, Nick Clapham, Michael
Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'ty NE) Clark, Dr David (South Shields)
Allen, Graham Clarke, Eric (Midlothian)
Alton, David Clarke, Tom (Monklands W)
Anderson, Donald (Swansea E) Clelland, David
Anderson, Ms Janet (Ros'dale) Clwyd, Mrs Ann
Armstrong, Hilary Coffey, Ann
Ashdown.Rt Hon Paddy Cohen, Harry
Ashton, Joe Connarty, Michael
Austin-Walker, John Cook, Frank (Stockton N)
Banks, Tony (Newham NW) Cock, Robin (Livingston)
Barnnes, Harry Corbett, Robin
Barron, Kevin Corbyn, Jeremy
Battle, John Corston, Jean
Bayley, Hugh Cousins, Jim
Beckett, Rf Hon Margaret Cox, Tom
Beith, Rt Hon A J Cummings, John
Bell, Stuart Cunningham, Jim (Covy SE)
Benn, Rt Hon Tony Cunningham, Rt Hon Dr John
Bennett, Andrew F Dafis, Cynog
Benton, Joe Dalyell,Tam
Bermingham, Gerald Darling, Alistair
Berry, Roger Davidson, Ian
Betts, Clive Davies, Bryan (Oldham C'tral)
Blair, Rt Hon Tony Davies, Ron (Caerphilly)
Blunkett, David Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli)
Boateng, Paul Davis, Terry (B'ham, H'dge H'I)
Boyes, Roland Denham, John
Bradley, Keith Dewar, Donald
Bray, Dr Jeremy Dixon, Don
Brown, Gordon (Dunferrmline E) Dobson, Frank
Brown, N (N'c'tle upon Tyne E) Donohoe, Brian H
Bruce, Malcolm (Gordon) Dunnachie, Jimmy
Burden, Richard Dunwoody, Mrs Qwyneth
Byers, Stephen Eagle, Ms Angela
Caborn, Richard Eastham, Ken
Callaghan,Jim Enright, Derek
Campbell, Menzies (Fife NE) Etherlngton, Bill
Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge) Evans, John (St Helens N)
Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V) Ewing, Mrs Margaret
Campbell-Savours, D N Fatchett, Derek
Cann, Jamie Faulds, Andrew
Carlile, Alexander (Montgomry) Field, Frank (Birkenhead)
Chidgey, David Fisher, Mark
Flynn, Paul Lloyd, Tony (Stretford)
Foster, Don (Bath) Llwyd, Elfyn
Foster, Rt Hon Derek Loyden, Eddie
Foulkes, George Macdonald, Calum
Fraser, John Mackinlay, Andrew
Fyfe, Maria Maclennan, Robert
Galbraith, Sam MacShane, Denis
Galloway, George Madden, Max
Gapes, Mike Maddock, Diana
Garrett, John Mahon, Alice
George, Bruce Mallon, Seamus
Gerrard, Neil Mandelson, Peter
Gilbert, Rt Hon Dr John Marek, Dr John
Godman, Dr Norman A Marshall, David (Shettleston)
Godsiff, Roger Martin, Michael J (Springburn)
Golding, Mrs Llin Martlew, Eric
Gordon, Mildred Maxton, John
Graham, Thomas McAllion, John
Grant, Bernie (Tottenham) McAvoy, Thomas
Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S) McCartney, Ian
Griffiths, Win (Bridgend) McCrea, Rev William
Grocott, Bruce McFall, John
Gunnell, John McGrady, Eddie
Hain, Peter McKelvey, William
Hall, Mike McLeish, Henry
Hanson, David McMaster, Gordon
Hardy, Peter McNamara, Kevin
Harman, Ms Harriet McWilliam, John
Harvey, Nick Meacher, Michael
Hattersley, Rt Hon Roy Meale, Alan
Henderson, Doug Michael, Alun
Hendron, Dr Joe Michie, Bill (Sheffield Heeley)
Heppell, John Michie, Mrs Ray (Argyll & Bute)
Hill, Keith (Streatham) Milburn, Alan
Hinchliffe, David Miller, Andrew
Hoey, Kate Mitchell, Austin (Gt Grimsby)
Hogg, Norman (Cumbernauld) Moonie, Dr Lewis
Home Robertson, John Morgan, Rhodri
Hood, Jimmy Morley, Ellot
Hoon, Geoffrey Morris, Estelle (B'ham Yardley)
Howarth, George (Knowsley N) Morris, Rt Hon Alfred (Wy'nshawe)
Howells, Dr. Kim (Pontypridd) Morris, Rt Hon John (Aberavon)
Hoyle, Doug Mowlam, Marjorie
Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N) Mudie, George
Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen N) Mullin, Chris
Hughes, Roy (Newport E) Murphy, Paul
Hughes, Simon (Southwark) O'Brien, Bill (Normanton)
Hume, John O'Brien, Mike (N W'kshire)
Hutton,John O'Hara, Edward
Illsley, Eric O'Neill, Martin
Ingram, Adam Oakes, Rt Hon Gordon
Jackson, Glenda (H'stead) Olner, Bill
Jackson, Helen (Shefld, H) Orme, Rt Hon Stanley
Jamieson, David Paisley, The Reverend Ian
Jamer, Grevile Parry, Robert
Johnston, Sir Russell Patchett Terry
Jones, Barry (Alyn and D'side) Pendry, Tom
Jones, Ieuan Wyn (Ynys Mon) Pickthall, Colin
Jones, Jon Owen (Cardiff C) Pike, Peter L
Jones, Lynne (B'ham S O) Pope, Greg
Jones, Martyn (Olwyd, SW) Powell, Ray (Ogmore)
Jones, Nigel (Cheltenham) Prentice, Bridget (Lew'm E)
Jewell, Tessa Prentice, Gordon (Pendle)
Kaufman, Rt Hon Gerald Prescott, Rt Hon John
Keen, Alan Primarolo, Dawn
Kennedy, Charles (Ross, C&S) Purchase, Ken
Kennedy, Jane (Lpool Brdgn) Quin, Ms Joyce
Khabra, Piara S Radice, Giles
Kilfoyle, Peter Randall, Stuart
Kinnock, Rt Hon Neil (Islwyn) Raynsford, Nick
Kirkwood, Archy Redmond, Martin
Lestor, Joan (Eccles) Reid, Dr John
Lewis, Terry Rendel, David
Liddell, Mrs Helen Robertson, George (Hamilton)
Litherland, Robert Robinson, Geoffrey (Co'try NW)
Livingstone, Ken Robinson, Peter (Belfast E)
Rogers, Allan Taylor, Mrs Ann (Dewsbury)
Rocker, Jeff Thompson, Jack (Wansbeck)
Rooney, Terry Timms, Stephen
Ross, Emie (Dundee W) Tipping, Paddy
Rowlands, Ted Turner, Dennis
Ruddock, Joan Tyler, Paul
Salmond, Alex Vaz, Keith
Sedgemore, Brian Walker, Rt Hon Sir Harold
Sheerman, Barry Wallace, James
Sheldon, Rt Hon Robert Walley, Joan
Shore, Rt Hon Peter Wardell, Gareth (Gower)
Short, Clare Wareing, Robert N
Simpson, Alan Watson, Mike
Skinner, Dennis Welsh, Andrew
Smith, Andrew (Oxford E) Wicks, Malcolm
Smith, Chris (Isl'ton S & F'sbury) Wigley, Dafydd
Williams, Alan W (Carmarthen)
Smith, Llew (Blaenau Gwent) Williams, Rt Hon Alan (SW'n W)
Snape, Peter Wilson Brian
Soley, Clive Winnick, David
Spearing, Nigel Wise, Audrey
Spellar, John Worthington, Tony
Squire, Rachel (Dunfermline W) Wray, Jimmy
Steinberg, Gerry Wright, Dr Tony
Stevenson, George Young, David (Bolton SE)
Strang, Dr. Gavin
Straw, Jack Tellers for the Noes:
Sutcliffe, Gerry Mr. Jim Dowd and
Taylor, Matthew (Truro) Mrs. Barbara Roche

Question accordingly agreed to.

Resolved, That this House welcomes the spending plans announced in the Budget statement by Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer on 29th November; congratulates Her Majesty's Government on its firm control over public expenditure, its drive for greater efficiency and economy in all areas of government, and its progress in reducing the share of national income taken by the public sector while improving key public services; and commends the Government's determination to maintain sound public finances.

Madam Speaker

I call Mr. Conway and Mr. Jon Owen Jones to come to the Table.

Mr. Derek Conway (Lords Commissioner to the Treasury)

I have to report that in the Division on the amendment, the numbers for the Ayes were incorrectly reported as 279. The figure should have been 297.

Madam Speaker

I direct that the correct figure of 297 be recorded in the Votes and Proceedings.

Mr. Kenneth Clarke

On a point of order, Madam Speaker—[Interruption.] I see that voting against all the tax increases and against all the spending reductions has cheered up the Labour party, but it might actually help the House if I gave a brief explanation of how I think our proceedings will now go ahead.

During the Budget debate, I mapped out a clear path for reductions in public borrowing and emphasised the importance of sound public finances to the achievement of a strong and sustainable recovery. Nothing said in the course of the debate tonight has changed our commitment to take all the necessary measures to put the public finances on a sound footing and nor, indeed, has the outcome of the vote.

However, it is only right that we should listen to the views expressed here tonight. I have therefore decided not to proceed with the second stage of value added tax on fuel and power. The Government will be bringing forward a resolution to hold the rate at 8 per cent., together with the requisite new clause.

The shortfall in the public finances must be made good. I shall be bringing proposals to the House on Thursday, designed to ensure that the public sector borrowing requirement remains on the course that I mapped out in my Budget statement. Proceeding in that way is essential to keep the recovery on course in order to achieve the prosperity and jobs that we need in this country.

Several hon. Members


Madam Speaker

Order. The Chancellor of the Exchequer rose to catch my eye on a point of order. I judge what he has said to be a short statement, and I shall treat it as such.

Mr. Gordon Brown

Further to that point of order, Madam Speaker. Now that VAT at 17.5 per cent. has been stopped dead in its tracks, is that not a humiliating defeat for the Cabinet, for the Chancellor and for the Prime Minister? Having tried for 18 months, in three successive Budgets, to impose the unfair VAT tax, does the Chancellor agree that VAT on fuel should never have been imposed in the first place? Does he agree also that promises made by political parties at elections should be kept? The Government will have to listen to the British people.

Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman agree also that no hasty and ill-considered measures—cobbled-together compromises—should be brought to the House by the Chancellor? If he believes, as he says, that there is an obligation on us to come forward with proposals, why does he not consult us before he brings proposals before the House on Thursday?

This is not just a defeat for the Budget. This signals a turning point in the politics of this country. Conservative Members may remain in office, but they are tired, they are discredited and they are out of touch. It is the Labour party that now represents and speaks for the people of this country.

Mr. Clarke

The Labour party may produce proposals slowly, but they are certainly cobbled together when they come. The hon. Member for Dunfermline, East (Mr. Brown) has made his proposals to deal with the public finances—loopholes, windfalls and zero rates on rollercoasters in theme parks. They are unlikely to feature in my statement on Thursday.

On Thursday, I will produce what the hon. Gentleman has never produced, which is a package of spending and taxation measures designed to keep borrowing on course and to regain confidence in the strong recovery of this country. The hon. Gentleman, in all his speeches on this matter, has made it clear that he will be utterly unfit to take forward the affairs of this country. He has no responsible suggestions to make on either spending or taxation. His vote this evening has been irresponsible and opportunist. He may gloat today, but we have the responsibility of keeping British industry on course tomorrow.

Mr. Malcolm Bruce

Will the Chancellor accept that the defeat of the Government tonight was inflicted by the votes of Members from all nine parties in the House? That demonstrates a monumental rejection of the Government's policies. What ingenious new taxes will the Tories now introduce? They have become the party of tax. If it moves they will tax it, and they will go on taxing until it stops moving. Does he accept that he is a member of a discredited Government who are rejected by the House, by his own party and by the people? There is only one place for him and his Government to go, and that is out.

Mr. Clarke

The Liberal Democrat party was the first political party in this country to advocate the imposition of value added tax on domestic fuel. The Liberal Democrat party remains committed to a carbon energy tax which would impose equivalent taxation in terms of domestic fuel and would also impose huge costs on British industry, damaging our competitiveness in world markets.

The hon. Gentleman asked me a question. He asked what taxes I might bring forward. In effect, he is asking me to advertise tax increases in advance in an utterly irresponsible way. The Liberal Democrat party is no better than the Labour party at producing thought-out proposals of its own and the hon. Gentleman illustrates his own irresponsibility by asking me to trail tax changes in advance of their being announced_ I cannot do so today, any more than I could do so before a Budget.

Sir Peter Tapsell (East Lindsey)

As the Labour party is committed to harmonising all taxes with those in the European Union and as every country in western Europe has a value added tax on fuel, is not it absolutely clear that a future Labour Government would introduce the tax which the House has just rejected?

Mr. Clarke

As my hon. Friend says, if the Labour party stood by the commitments that it incurred in the European Parliament, that would indeed be the case. But Opposition Members shake their heads at the idea that they are committed to anything. Throughout five days of debate they never said that they would repeal the tax if we introduced it, and they engaged in pure political opportunism without offering any alternative proposals of their own.

Mr. Peter Shore (Bethnal Green and Stepney)

Now that we have a minority Government, does not the Chancellor think that it is rather premature to bring forward new proposals this Thursday? Would not he be better advised to give himself more time to consult not only Opposition parties, but within his own party before he presents further proposals?

Mr. Clarke

I see no alternative Government—nothing resembling an alternative Government— before me. I see no political party ready for office which could be responsible for this country's economic affairs. I have heard the Labour party's propositions: the windfalls, the loopholes, the zero rating of funfairs, and the restoration of the tax on champagne. They are preposterous. Of course, better suggestions will be considered if the Opposition can think of any between now and Thursday.

Mr. Alex Salmond (Banff and Buchan)

Has the Chancellor had time to reflect upon the wisdom of the petulance which led him to defend an indefensible tax increase to the last ditch? If that was a marginal part of the Government's programme, should not the Chancellor consider his own position in leading his party to such humiliation? If it was a central part of the Government's programme, should not the entire Government face the people in a general election?

Mr. Clarke

Because of the compensation I announced— and actually would have improved during the debate— pensioners were one group in this country who would not have borne the full weight of the proposal. Indeed, about one fifth of pensioners would have received more compensation than the VAT they would have been likely to pay. The principal beneficiaries of this evening's vote will be people living in large houses with large central heating bills.

Mr. Duncan Smith

Does not my right hon. and learned Friend agree that when he brings forward his package on Thursday he should consider the fact that we are determined to bring down public expenditure, while the Opposition spokesman, the hon. Member for Copeland (Dr Cunningham), said that public expenditure was too high, and other Opposition Back Benchers said that taxation is not high enough? Does the Chancellor agree that that shows the Labour party's absolute hypocrisy in this area?

Mr. Clarke

My hon. Friend is quite right: the hon. Member for Copeland (Dr. Cunningham) made the extraordinary statement that, in his opinion, public expenditure was too high. He said— he repeats it now—that public expenditure on social security was too high, which I think bodes ill for old-age pensioners. He then went through the Division Lobby with his hon. Friends and voted against every public expenditure reduction that we had proposed. As I said a moment ago, the Labour party's position is preposterous—and other adjectives leap to mind quite easily.

Mr. D. N. Campbell-Savours (Workington)

In so far as Ministers were predicting a substantial increase in interest rates in the event that they lost the Division, is that still their view or were they just threatening Back Benchers in an irresponsible way?

Mr. Clarke

If there is one thing dafter than asking the Chancellor of the Exchequer questions about possible tax movements two days before he announces them, it is asking him about likely movements in interest rates. There is scarcely a Labour Member who would be capable of running a whelk stall, let alone the Exchequer.

Several hon. Members


Madam Speaker

Order. We shall move on to petitions.

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