§ (".—(1) Where subsection (2) applies, the Secretary of State may by order prohibit a body from distributing money under section 23(1) to a person specified in the order.
§ (2) This subsection applies if at the time the order is made—
§ (a) the person specified is a company of which the body, or a wholly-owned subsidiary of the body, is a member, or
§ (b) the Secretary of State considers that the body is able (whether directly or indirectly) to control or materially to influence the policy of the person specified in carrying on any undertaking or performing any functions.
§ (3) In subsection (2)—
346§ this legislation. He envisaged the lottery growing to behemoth size. As the legislation reaches its conclusion, I am glad that he has the faith that the lottery will grow to that size.
§ The hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde opposes Lords amendment No. 10, but he did not table an Opposition amendment. If the House rejects that amendment, the clause will remain as it is, and in that state the hon. Gentleman in Committee inveighed against its dictatorial powers.
§ Mr. PendryIt is a bit rich, and stretching matters somewhat, for the Secretary of State to blame me for the amendment. In Committee, my colleagues and I argued that the amendment enhanced the dictatorial powers of the Secretary of State. The Secretary of State is taking away the autonomy that distributive bodies would have by taking more power to himself. His argument does not in any way answer the point. The original clause would be better than the amended one.
We have had a good debate on the matter, and I do not want to detain the House. I had hoped that the Secretary of State would listen more closely to the hon. Members for Belfast, West (Dr. Hendron) and for Newry and Armagh (Mr. Mallon), even if he did not listen too much to me. When all is said and done, they were speaking not only from the heart but from the front line, as it were. They certainly know better than I and, no doubt, better than the Secretary of State, although we both had some say in Northern Ireland affairs for a time. They are at the sharp end, and they should be listened to.
The hon. and learned Member for Burton (Sir I. Lawrence) is as puzzled as we are that this was not included in the original drafting of the legislation. If it is an afterthought, we are asking the Secretary of State to have another. He should look at the matter again. The Government have listened to representations not only from us, but from outside bodies, and it would be a pity to mar that with acrimony at this stage. I hope that the Secretary of State will be big enough to take the matter back. I agree that it is a difficult area, but we should get around a table to try to work out a way of meeting his points, while at the same time not removing the rights of the distributive bodies and staying in line with the general thrust of what I said at the beginning of my speech. I hope that the Secretary of State will do that. If he does not, I shall ask my hon. Friends to divide the House on this important issue of justice.
§ Question put and agreed to.
§ Lords amendment No. 9 agreed to.
§ Lords amendment proposed: No. 10, after clause 24, to insert the following new clause—
347- (a) "company" means a company formed and registered under the Companies Act 1935 or the Companies (Northern Ireland) Order 1986 or a company to which the provisions of that Act or Order apply as they apply to a company so formed and registered, and
- (b) "wholly-owned subsidiary" has the meaning given by section 736 of that Act or Article 4 of that Order.
§ (4) Where subsection (5) applies, the Secretary of State may give directions to a body—
- (a) prohibiting it from distributing money under section 23(1) to a person in Northern Ireland specified in the directions, or
- (b) requiring it to secure that any money distributed by it under section 23(1) to such a person is not applied for a purpose specified in the directions.
§ (5) This subsection applies if at the time the directions are given the Secretary of State considers that—
- (a) a proscribed organisation for the purposes of the Northern Ireland (Emergency Provisions) Act 1991, or
- (b) any other organisation that appears to him to be concerned in terrorism in Northern Ireland or in promoting or encouraging it,
§ (6) In subsection (5) "benefit" includes benefit of a non-financial nature and, in particular, an enhancement of reputation.
§ (7) A body may not disclose to any other person either the identity of any person specified in directions given to it under subsection (4) or any information that might lead to the identification of such a person.
§ (8) A body shall provide the Secretary of State with such information as he may require for the purpose of exercising his powers under this section in relation to the body.")
§ Question put, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendment:—
§ The House divided: Ayes 274, Noes 126.
350| Division No. 366] | [8.09 pm |
| AYES | |
| Ainsworth, Peter (East Surrey) | Brooke, Rt Hon Peter |
| Aitken, Jonathan | Brown, M. (Brigg & Cl'thorpes) |
| Alexander, Richard | Browning, Mrs. Angela |
| Alison, Rt Hon Michael (Selby) | Bruce, Malcolm (Gordon) |
| Amess, David | Budgen, Nicholas |
| Ancram, Michael | Burns, Simon |
| Arbuthnot, James | Burl, Alistair |
| Arnold, Sir Thomas (Hazel Grv) | Butcher, John |
| Ashby, David | Butler, Peter |
| Aspinwall, Jack | Campbell, Menzies (Fife NE) |
| Atkins, Robert | Carlisle, John (Luton North) |
| Atkinson, David (Bour'mouth E) | Carlisle, Kenneth (Lincoln) |
| Atkinson, Peter (Hexham) | Carrington, Matthew |
| Baker, Rt Hon K. (Mole Valley) | Carttiss, Michael |
| Baker, Nicholas (Dorset North) | Cash, William |
| Baldry, Tony | Channon, Rt Hon Paul |
| Banks, Matthew (Southport) | Chapman, Sydney |
| Bates, Michael | Churchill, Mr |
| Batiste, Spencer | Clappison, James |
| Beggs, Roy | Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford) |
| Bellingham, Henry | Clarke, Rt Hon Kenneth (Ruclif) |
| Bendall, Vivian | Coe, Sebastian |
| Beresford, Sir Paul | Colvin, Michael |
| Biffen, Rt Hon John | Congdon, David |
| Blackburn, Dr John G. | Conway, Derek |
| Bonsor, Sir Nicholas | Coombs, Anthony (Wyre For'st) |
| Booth, Hartley | Coombs, Simon (Swindon) |
| Boswell, Tim | Cope, Rt Hon Sir John |
| Bottomley, Peter (Eltham) | Couchman, James |
| Bowis, John | Cran, James |
| Boyson, Rt Hon Sir Rhodes | Currie, Mrs Edwina (S D'by'ire) |
| Brandreth, Gyles | Curry, David (Skipton & Ripon) |
| Brazier, Julian | Davies, Quentin (Stamford) |
| Bright, Graham | Day, Stephen |
| Deva, Nirj Joseph | Hanley, Jeremy |
| Devlin, Tim | Hannam, Sir John |
| Dorrell, Stephen | Hargreaves, Andrew |
| Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James | Harris, David |
| Dover, Den | Haselhurst, Alan |
| Duncan, Alan | Hawkins, Nick |
| Duncan-Smith, Iain | Hawksley, Warren |
| Eggar, Tim | Hayes, Jerry |
| Evans, David (Welwyn Hatfield) | Heald, Oliver |
| Evans, Jonathan (Brecon) | Heathcoat-Amory, David |
| Evans, Nigel (Ribble Valley) | Hendry, Charles |
| Evans, Roger (Monmouth) | Hicks, Robert |
| Evennett, David | Higgins, Rt Hon Sir Terence L. |
| Faber, David | Hogg, Rt Hon Douglas (G'tham) |
| Fenner, Dame Peggy | Horam, John |
| Field, Barry (Isle of Wight) | Hordern, Rt Hon Sir Peter |
| Fishburn, Dudley | Howell, Sir Ralph (N Norfolk) |
| Forman, Nigel | Hughes Robert G. (Harrow W) |
| Forsyth, Michael (Stirling) | Hunt, Rt Hon David (Wirral W) |
| Forsythe, Clifford (Antrim S) | Hunt, Sir John (Ravensbourne) |
| Forth, Eric | Hunter, Andrew |
| Fox, Dr Liam (Woodspring) | Jackson, Robert (Wantage) |
| Freeman, Rt Hon Roger | Jenkin, Bernard |
| French, Douglas | Johnson Smith, Sir Geoffrey |
| Fry, Peter | Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N) |
| Gale, Roger | Jones, Nigel (Cheltenham) |
| Gallie, Phil | Jones, Robert B. (W Hertfdshr) |
| Gardiner, Sir George | Kellett-Bowman, Dame Elaine |
| Garel-Jones, Rt Hon Tristan | Key, Robert |
| Garnier, Edward | Kilfedder, Sir James |
| Gill, Christopher | Kirkhope, Timothy |
| Gillan, Cheryl | Knapman, Roger |
| Goodlad, Rt Hon Alastair | Knight, Mrs Angela (Erewash) |
| Goodson-Wickes, Dr Charles | Knight, Greg (Derby N) |
| Gorman, Mrs Teresa | Knight, Dame Jill (Bir'm E'st'n) |
| Greenway, Harry (Ealing N) | Knox, Sir David |
| Greenway, John (Ryedale) | Kynoch, George (Kincardine) |
| Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth, N) | Lait, Mrs Jacqui |
| Hague, William | Lawrence, Sir Ivan |
| Hamilton, Neil (Tatton) | Legg, Barry |
| Hampson, Dr Keith | Leigh, Edward |
| Lidington, David | Ryder, Rt Hon Richard |
| Lightbown, David | Sackville, Tom |
| Lilley, Rt Hon Peter | Shaw, David (Dover) |
| Lloyd, Peter (Fareham) | Shaw, Sir Giles (Pudsey) |
| Luff, Peter | Shephard, Rt Hon Gillian |
| Lynne, Ms Liz | Shepherd, Colin (Hereford) |
| McCrea, Rev William | Shepherd, Richard (Aldridge) |
| MacGregor, Rt Hon John | Shersby, Michael |
| Maclean, David | Skeet, Sir Trevor |
| McLoughlin, Patrick | Smith, Sir Dudley (Warwick) |
| McNair-Wilson, Sir Patrick | Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield) |
| Madel, David | Soames, Nicholas |
| Maitland, Lady Olga | Speed, Sir Keith |
| Malone, Gerald | Spencer, Sir Derek |
| Mans, Keith | Spicer, Michael (S Worcs) |
| Marland, Paul | Spink, Dr Robert |
| Marlow, Tony | Spring, Richard |
| Marshall, John (Hendon S) | Sproat, Iain |
| Martin, David (Portsmouth S) | Squire, Robin (Hornchurch) |
| Mates, Michael | Steel, Rt Hon Sir David |
| Mawhinney, Dr Brian | Stephen, Michael |
| Mayhew, Rt Hon Sir Patrick | Stern, Michael |
| Merchant, Piers | Stewart, Allan |
| Milligan, Stephen | Streeter, Gary |
| Mills, Iain | Sweeney, Walter |
| Mitchell, Sir David (Hants NW) | Sykes, John |
| Moate, Sir Roger | Taylor, Ian (Esher) |
| Molyneaux, Rt Hon James | Taylor, Sir Teddy (Southend, E) |
| Montgomery, Sir Fergus | Temple-Morris, Peter |
| Moss, Malcolm | Thomason, Roy |
| Nelson, Anthony | Thompson, Sir Donald (C'er V) |
| Neubert, Sir Michael | Thompson, Patrick (Norwich N) |
| Newton, Rt Hon Tony | Thornton, Sir Malcolm |
| Nicholls, Patrick | Thurnham, Peter |
| Nicholson, David (Taunton) | Townend, John (Bridlington) |
| Nicholson, Emma (Devon West) | Townsend, Cyril D. (Bexl'yh'th) |
| Norris, Steve | Tracey, Richard |
| Onslow, Rt Hon Sir Cranley | Trend, Michael |
| Ottaway, Richard | Trotter, Neville |
| Page, Richard | Tyler, Paul |
| Paice, James | Vaughan, Sir Gerard |
| Patnick, Irvine | Walden, George |
| Patten, Rt Hon John | Walker, Bill (N Tayside) |
| Pattie, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey | Waller, Gary |
| Pawsey, James | Ward, John |
| Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth | Wardle, Charles (Bexhill) |
| Pickles, Eric | Waterson, Nigel |
| Porter, Barry (Wirral S) | Watts, John |
| Porter, David (Waveney) | Wheeler, Rt Hon Sir John |
| Portillo, Rt Hon Michael | Whitney, Ray |
| Powell, William (Corby) | Whittingdale, John |
| Rathbone, Tim | Widdecombe, Ann |
| Redwood, Rt Hon John | Wiggin, Sir Jerry |
| Renton, Rt Hon Tim | Willetts, David |
| Richards, Rod | Wilshire, David |
| Riddick, Graham | Winterton, Mrs Ann (Congleton) |
| Robathan, Andrew | Winterton, Nicholas (Macc'f'ld) |
| Roberts, Rt Hon Sir Wyn | Wood, Timothy |
| Robertson, Raymond (Ab'd'n S) | Yeo, Tim |
| Robinson, Mark (Somerton) | Young, Rt Hon Sir George |
| Roe, Mrs Marion (Broxbourne) | |
| Ross, William (E Londonderry) | Tellers for the Ayes: |
| Rowe, Andrew (Mid Kent) | Mr. Andrew MacKay and |
| Rumbold, Rt Hon Dame Angela | Mr. Andrew Mitchell. |
| NOES | |
| Abbott, Ms Diane | Byers, Stephen |
| Adams, Mrs Irene | Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge) |
| Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE) | Campbell-Savours, D. N. |
| Allen, Graham | Clark, Dr David (South Shields) |
| Anderson, Donald (Swansea E) | Clarke, Eric (Midlothian) |
| Ashton, Joe | Clwyd, Mrs Ann |
| Austin-Walker, John | Coffey, Ann |
| Barnes, Harry | Connarty, Michael |
| Bayley, Hugh | Cook, Frank (Stockton N) |
| Beckett, Rt Hon Margaret | Cook, Robin (Livingston) |
| Bermingham, Gerald | Corbett, Robin |
| Blunkett, David | Corston, Ms Jean |
| Boyce, Jimmy | Cryer, Bob |
| Bradley, Keith | Dafis, Cvnog |
| Darling, Alistair | McLeish, Henry |
| Davidson, Ian | McMaster, Gordon |
| Dewar, Donald | McNamara, Kevin |
| Dobson, Frank | Madden, Max |
| Donohoe, Brian H. | Mahon, Alice |
| Enright, Derek | Mallon, Seamus |
| Etherington, Bill | Mandelson, Peter |
| Evans, John (St Helens N) | Marshall, Jim (Leicester, S) |
| Faulds, Andrew | Meale, Alan |
| Field, Frank (Birkenhead) | Michael, Alun |
| Fisher, Mark | Michie, Bill (Sheffield Heeley) |
| Flynn, Paul | Miller, Andrew |
| Foster, Rt Hon Derek | Moonie, Dr Lewis |
| Foulkes, George | Morgan, Rhodri |
| Fraser, John | Morris, Estelle (B'ham Yardley) |
| Fyfe, Maria | Mudie, George |
| Gilbert, Rt Hon Dr John | Mullin, Chris |
| Godman, Dr Norman A. | Murphy, Paul |
| Golding, Mrs Llin | O'Brien, William (Normanton) |
| Gordon, Mildred | Pendry, Tom |
| Grant, Bernie (Tottenham) | Pickthall, Colin |
| Gunnell, John | Pike, Peter L. |
| Hall, Mike | Prentice, Ms Bridget (Lew'm E) |
| Hanson, David | Prentice, Gordon (Pendle) |
| Hardy, Peter | Prescott, John |
| Harman, Ms Harriet | Primarolo, Dawn |
| Hendron, Dr Joe | Randall, Stuart |
| Hill, Keith (Streatham) | Raynsford, Nick |
| Hinchliffe, David | Robertson, George (Hamilton) |
| Home Robertson, John | Roche, Mrs. Barbara |
| Hood, Jimmy | Sedgemore, Brian |
| Howarth, George (Knowsley N) | Sheldon, Rt Hon Robert |
| Hoyle, Doug | Short, Clare |
| Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N) | Simpson, Alan |
| Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen N) | Skinner, Dennis |
| Illsley, Eric | Smith, Andrew (Oxford E) |
| Jackson, Helen (Shef'ld, H) | Smith, C. (Isl'ton S & F'sbury) |
| Jamieson, David | Spellar, John |
| Jones, leuan Wyn (Ynys Môn) | Squire, Rachel (Dunfermline W) |
| Kennedy, Jane (Lpool Brdgn) | Stott, Roger |
| Kinnock, Rt Hon Neil (Islwyn) | Strang, Dr. Gavin |
| Leighton, Ron | Straw, Jack |
| Lestor, Joan (Eccles) | Taylor, Mrs Ann (Dewsbury) |
| Lewis, Terry | Wigley, Dafydd |
| Livingstone, Ken | Winnick, David |
| Lloyd, Tony (Stretford) | Wise, Audrey |
| Loyden, Eddie | Wright, Dr Tony |
| McAllion, John | |
| McAvoy, Thomas | Tellers for the Noes: |
| McKelvey, William | Mr. Peter Kilfoyle and |
| Mackinlay, Andrew | Mr. Don Dixon. |
§ Question accordingly agreed to.
§ Subsequent Lords amendments agreed to.