HC Deb 11 May 1993 vol 224 cc637-8
6. Mr. Gapes

To ask the Secretary of State for Education how his Department determines whether a local authority has an apparent surplus of primary school and secondary school places; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Patten

The Department for Education conducted a survey of surplus capacity in 1991, comparing the total capacity of schools in each authority with total pupil numbers. We are consulting local education authorities on the scope for reducing that surplus, taking into account demographic and other changes since the survey.

Mr. Gapes

Is the Secretary of State aware that if he moved to Ilford, South and had an eight-year-old son or daughter in year four, he would not be able to get a place for his child in seven of the 10 schools in my constituency, and in three schools he would get a place only for a catchment area child? Highlands school in Cranbrook ward has 36 children in two classes and Christchurch primary and infant school has 35 children in every class from reception to year six. What is he going to do about it? Why is Redbridge council considering putting Portakabins on a building site to deal with the problem, yet the Government refused to allow the council to build the school that is needed in my constituency?

Mr. Patten

I appreciate the hon. Member's strength of feeling on behalf of his constituents. A basic needs formula is applied by my Department to make new school building possible when there is an established need for extra places. His question demonstrates how critically important it is for us to get to grips with the fact that there are many hundreds of thousands of surplus school places, where money is being spent on roofs and not on educating children. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will support me in our campaign to ensure that those surplus places are wrung out of the system, so that money can be transferred from where it is being wasted to where it may be needed—it is up to the hon. Gentleman's local authority to make the case.

Mr. Dickens

Can the Secretary of State tell the House whether he thinks that the criteria are working, in the sense that if there are places within a 2-mile radius of an overcrowded school, it is prohibited from being rebuilt on a new site? Our hon. Friend the Member for Mid-Worcestershire (Mr. Forth), the Under-Secretary of State for Schools, has been dealing with Holy Trinity county primary school in Dobcross, in the hills of Saddleworth. In winter 2 miles is a long way to bus children in Saddleworth, although 2 miles on the flat in an urban area is not far at all.

Mr. Patten

As my hon. Friend knows, I visited Saddleworth, at his invitation, in the winter and I know what it is like. In applying any criteria for catchment areas to schools there is a dilemma. On all occasions, we must take two things into account: first, in the interests of rural communities, we must preserve small rural schools with large catchment areas; secondly, we must make it possible for popular schools to expand. My hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State and I have been most concerned to make advances on the latter in recent months and we hope to make announcement in the not-too-distant future.