HC Deb 10 May 1993 vol 224 cc493-4
34. Mr. Gerrard

To ask the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what further plans he has to review and amend citizens charters.

Mr. Robert Jackson

I refer the hon. Member to the reply I have just given to my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes, South-West (Mr.Legg).

Mr. Gerrard

Is the Minister aware that the citizens charter's list of performance indicators for local government includes hardly any that relate specifically to services to ethnic minority communities and contains no mention of major services such as education? Does he accept that record keeping and monitoring are an essential part of ensuring that equal opportunities policies operate effectively? Will he ensure that charters and performance indicators do not continue simply to ignore them?

Mr. Jackson

The hon. Gentleman makes a fair point. It is important to monitor the participation of ethnic minorities in a range of activities. I will certainly draw the attention of the Audit Commission, which is responsible for local government performance indicators, to what the hon. Gentleman said about ethnic minorities. We shall certainly bear in mind the interests of ethnic minorities in drawing up all the charters so that, where appropriate, they can be taken into account.

Sir Paul Beresford

Will my hon. Friend, in reviewing and amending the citizens charter, recognise that in local government the achievement of a charter mark was accepted with pleasure by competent local authorities at the top of the scale? However, there is considerable wastage at the bottom end of the scale and it would benefit the public, in terms of the quality of services and potential savings, if heavier pressure were placed on local authorities at the bottom end of the charter list.

Mr. Jackson

My hon. Friend, with his great experience of local government, is absolutely right. I should like to draw the attention of the Opposition Front Bench to a statement made recently in the Municipal Journal by the leader of the Labour party on Berkshire county council, Dr. Lawrence Silverman, who seems to be well in advance of his party in the House. He said: if the private sector can provide computing, payroll and other financial services cheaper than the in-house bureaucracy, then we owe it to the people…to make these savings and to put the money saved into direct services". My hon. Friend and Dr. Silverman are absolutely right; it is Opposition Members who have not quite got the point.

Mr. Matthew Taylor

In reviewing and amending charters, the Minister placed considerable emphasis on responsiveness to public demand. On the education charter and particularly testing, given the thumbs down from teachers, the public at the polls and even education advisers to the Secretary of State for Education, will the Minister at least draw the Secretary of State's attention to the fact that the citizens charter is meant to pay attention to other people's views and, one hopes, will do so before the system descends into chaos?

Mr. Jackson

Of course we have to pay attention to people's views and explain our policies clearly and effectively. But, as I said earlier, we have to explain that there is a vital connection between testing and the information that parents are seeking about the performance of schools.

Lady Olga Maitland

In reviewing charters, is my hon. Friend aware that the passengers charter is working very well? Last weekend, I was on a train from Truro to London which was an hour and a half late. Every courtesy was extended to me, plus an offer of compensation. Does that not show that the Government put people first and that they care?

Mr. Jackson

There is no doubt that an improvement in performance has been effected by the way in which the charters are picking up the performance of public services through monitoring, and a significant contribution is being made.