§ 8. Mr. Campbell-SavoursTo ask the Secretary of State for Education what discussions he has held with Cumbria county council on the introduction of selection in education in Penrith.
§ Mr. Campbell-SavoursThe decision to restore selection in Penrith is an absolute outrage. Does the Minister not realise that people of all political persuasions in Penrith reject that decision, as they did last year when consultation took place in the community? If Ministers are impaled on the nonsense of the policy, can we have a ballot of the people of Penrith and the surrounding communities so that they have the opportunity of rejecting the Government's nonsense?
§ Mr. ForthThere seems to be a certain desperation in what the hon. Gentleman says. I do not know what he is worried about. It seems that our response to what the school governors wanted and our fulfilling of a need in education for a diversity of provision causes Opposition Members upset and discouragement. I am intrigued by the suggestion that we should start running things by local referendum—I do not know whether that is now Labour party policy. I believe that the combination of governor decisions in schools and the election of governors and of local education authorities which are fully accountable creates sufficient democracy. I do not believe that we should go down the route suggested by the hon. Gentleman.
§ Mr. Harry GreenwayDoes my hon. Friend agree that we must have equality of opportunity in education in Penrith and everywhere else? If we are to educate children according to their age, aptitude and ability—as we must, and as the Education Act 1944 rightly laid down—there must be self-selection by children, and schools must have the right to select according to subject and other disciplines. Does my hon. Friend agree that that is the only way to give every child the maximum opportunity to fulfil his or her potential?
§ Mr. ForthMy hon. Friend, who is extremely knowledgeable and experienced in such matters, points us in the right direction. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has made it clear that it is his desire to respond to what local schools say about how they want to serve their local communities and to advance towards the policies that their governors choose.
§ Mr. Campbell-SavoursPeople do not want it. The Tories do not want it.
§ Mr. ForthThe case cited is a good example and one that I believe will be followed by many schools up and down the country [Interruption.] My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State will examine each case on its merits and make a calm and rational educational judgment/. Interruption.J—as Opposition Members seem incapable of doing.
§ Mrs. Ann TaylorWill the Minister think again, as the Penrith decision is turning the clock back in a ridiculous way? The reintroduction of a crude and fallible selection at 11 will deny education opportunities to many children. That decision is clearly wrong on educational grounds. Does the Minister not realise that comprehensive education has produced good results in educational terms, as evidenced by last year's GCSE examinations? How on earth does dividing children at 11 years of age fit in with what the Prime Minister says about creating a classless society?
§ Mr. ForthMany people believe that a certain amount of turning the clock back might not be a bad thing in some respects. I can only say to the hon. Lady that not only can a decision like this not be reversed, but this decision certainly should not be reversed. I believe that it reflects the ability of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State to respond to local desires and demands in the best interests of the education of children up and down the country. [Interruption.] If the Opposition will take the time to reflect more calmly on the matter, they will see that there is not much to get excited about.