Mr. David Hams (St. Ives)On a point of order, Madam Speaker. Have you received any request from the Government for time to make a statement on the deplorable action of the French in regard to the Royal Navy, giving the response that Her Majesty's Government will make, in view of the possibility of further action by French fishermen later today?
§ Madam SpeakerI have had no information that at this stage any Minister is seeking to make a statement on that issue.
§ Mr. Max Madden (Bradford, West)On a point of order, Madam Speaker. I have given you notice of this point of order, which concerns the availability of papers for the debate on the coal industry. I particularly request that the protocol agreement relating to the French electricity link be made available. It was referred to extensively by the President of the Board of Trade in his statement last Thursday, and is referred to in all the documents relevant to the debate. I remind you, Madam Speaker, that the minutes of evidence given to the Select Committee on Trade and Industry include part of the protocol agreement.
Last Thursday, the President of the Board of Trade sought to leave the impression that my right hon. Friend the Member for Chesterfield (Mr. Benn) had announced and negotiated the link in 1978. He accused my right hon. Friend of not having wrapped up the details of the contract before announcing it. You will know, Madam Speaker, that the protocol agreement was not signed until 1981. You may also know that it has never been published, that none of the consequential agreements has been published and that both protocol and agreement were made available to members of the Trade and Industry Select Committee on a confidential basis.
My point of order is this: how can the House and the public form a judgment on the advantages and disadvantages to Britain of the link when the basic agreement is not available to the House or the public? As the President of the Board of Trade sought on Thursday to make significant political capital out of his statement, I strongly urge that he be pressed to make the protocol and other agreements available to the House at the earliest opportunity.
§ Madam SpeakerOrder. I am ready to answer the hon. Gentleman's point of order, but the right hon. Member for Chesterfield (Mr. Benn) has been mentioned. If he has a point of order—not a point of argument—of course I must hear it, but I will hear only from the right hon. Gentleman who has been mentioned.
§ Mr. Tony Benn (Chesterfield)On a point of order, Madam Speaker. My point of order relates not to the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Bradford, West (Mr. Madden), but to the fact that, in quoting my words, the President of the Board of Trade failed to state that, in announcing the connector, I had said that it would
provide an opportunity for the export of coal-fired electricity to France."—[Official Report, 3 August 1987; Vol. 955, c. 546.]22 That was the statement that I made, and the President of the Board of Trade suppressed it. [Interruption.]
§ Madam SpeakerOrder. Some right hon. and hon. Members are seeking to jump the gun. These are matters for the debate which we have not yet reached.
I am grateful to the hon. Member for Bradford, West (Mr. Madden) for giving me notice of his point of order. I have ascertained that the protocol and subsequent documents that he wishes to be made available are commercial agreements between the Central Electricity Generating Board and Electricite de France. I cannot direct that such documents should be laid before the House. As the hon. Gentleman knows, other papers relevant to this matter are available. It is not for me to comment on whether or not they are adequate, in the hon. Gentleman's opinion, for the purposes of today's debate.
§ Madam SpeakerOrder. There can be no further points of order on a ruling that I have already given.
§ Mr. Richard Caborn (Sheffield, Central)On a point of order, Madam Speaker. I understand that this afternoon you will announce that the debate will be on the White Paper and the official Opposition's amendment. May I raise with you points that were raised last Thursday during business questions at columns 1259 and 1260 regarding the amendment that stands in my name and that of a number of other hon. Members? The Trade and Industry Select Committee was asked, by a resolution of this House, to look into this matter and report. Will the Select Committee's recommendations be put before the House? Since the White Paper was published by the President of the Board of Trade only a short time ago, hon. Members ought to have the opportunity to vote today on the Select Committee's recommendations.
§ Madam SpeakerIt is not for me to determine when the Select Committee's report should be debated in the House. I recollect the exchanges last Thursday to which the hon. Gentleman refers. May I remind the hon. Gentleman that, under Standing Orders, I am required, at 10 o'clock tonight, to put all the matters under consideration. It is for that reason that I am able to select only one amendment. That amendment stands in the name of the Leader of the Opposition. It is impracticable, under our Standing Orders, to select more than one amendment for today's debate. I intended to make that announcement before we started the debate. If we can start it, I am sure that it will all become clear to hon. Members.
§ Madam SpeakerOrder; I am on my feet. Has the hon. Member for Sheffield, Central something further to say?
§ Mr. CabornFurther to that point of order, Madam Speaker. Are you saying that the interpretation has to be that the Government did not respond to the request of the shadow Leader of the House that we should have a full debate and vote on the question?
§ Madam SpeakerThe business of the House is not a matter for the Speaker, strange though that may seem. It is a matter for the Leader of the House and the usual channels. I have to work under the Standing Orders. For that reason, I am limited to selecting only one amendment today.
§ Madam SpeakerOrder. I want no more points of order on the matters that I have dealt with.
§ Mr. Martin Redmond (Don Valley)rose——
§ Madam SpeakerIs this a separate point of order?
§ Mr. RedmondYes, it is. May I ask for your guidance, Madam Speaker? Does business confidentiality still apply when a company has gone out of existence? The CEGB no longer exists. Therefore, any agreement between that company and the French is no longer a commercial agreement.
§ Madam SpeakerThe question that was put to me was whether I could require the documents to be laid before this House. I have no authority to require documents which are other than state papers to be laid before this House.
§ Mr. Bob Cryer (Bradford, South)On a point of order, Madam Speaker. You will recall that when Sessional Orders have been tabled at the beginning of parliamentary Sessions I have on several occasions raised issues and there has been debate about them. I draw your attention to the fact that Sessional Orders give the right to Members of Parliament to be heard.
In the face of a considerable lobby, may I ask you, Madam Speaker, to ensure, first, that Sessional Orders are applied and, secondly, that some of the energy of the police is used to facilitate the lobby by miners of this House so that they can present their very strong case, particularly to Tory Members of Parliament, in the Lobby and in the Grand Committee Room and make sure that some Tory MPs go into the Lobby to keep open the 31 pits?
§ Madam SpeakerI shall certainly see that the matter is referred to the Serjeant at Arms and do what I can to facilitate the entrance of constituents to the building.
§ Mr. George Stevenson (Stoke-on-Trent, South)On a point of order, Madam Speaker. You referred to the official documents being presented to the House. The Secretary of State laid considerable emphasis on article 30 of the treaty of Rome. Article 31 of the treaty requires lists of products and services that are subject to quantitative restrictions to be agreed by member states. I have checked with the Library. No such list is available. I suggest that it is critical information for the debate.
§ Madam SpeakerI am sure that if the hon. Gentleman were to refer to the Library, it would be extremely helpful. The treaty of Rome has been in existence for quite some time now.