§
Motion made, and Question put forthwith pursuant to Standing Order No. 101(5) (Standing Committees on Statutory Instruments, &c.),
That that the draft Water Undertakers (Rateable Values) (Amendment) Order 1993, which was laid before this House on 4th February, be approved.—[Mr. Arbuthnot.]
§ The House divided: Ayes 143, Noes 40.
1031| Division No. 190] | [10.20 pm |
| AYES | |
| Ainsworth, Peter (East Surrey) | Hawksley, Warren |
| Aitken, Jonathan | Heald, Oliver |
| Alexander, Richard | Heathcoat-Amory, David |
| Alison, Rt Hon Michael (Selby) | Higgins, Rt Hon Sir Terence L. |
| Alton, David | Hughes Robert G. (Harrow W) |
| Amess, David | Hughes, Simon (Southwark) |
| Ancram, Michael | Hunt, Sir John (Ravensbourne) |
| Arbuthnot, James | Jack, Michael |
| Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham) | Jackson, Robert (Wantage) |
| Arnold, Sir Thomas (Hazel Grv) | Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N) |
| Atkinson, Peter (Hexham) | Jones, Robert B. (W Hertfdshr) |
| Baker, Rt Hon K. (Mole Valley) | Kellett-Bowman, Dame Elaine |
| Baker, Nicholas (Dorset North) | Kilfedder, Sir James |
| Beith, Rt Hon A. J. | Kirkwood, Archy |
| Bendall, Vivian | Knapman, Roger |
| Beresford, Sir Paul | Knight, Greg (Derby N) |
| Blackburn, Dr John G. | Kynoch, George (Kincardine) |
| Bonsor, Sir Nicholas | Lait, Mrs Jacqui |
| Bowis, John | Legg, Barry |
| Brandreth, Gyles | Lennox-Boyd, Mark |
| Brazier, Julian | Lidington, David |
| Bright, Graham | Lord, Michael |
| Brown, M. (Brigg & Cl'thorpes) | Luff, Peter |
| Browning, Mrs. Angela | Lyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas |
| Burt, Alistair | Lynne, Ms Liz |
| Campbell, Menzies (Fife NE) | MacKay, Andrew |
| Carlile, Alexander (Montgomry) | Maclean, David |
| Carrington, Matthew | Malone, Gerald |
| Carttiss, Michael | Mans, Keith |
| Cash, William | Marlow, Tony |
| Chapman, Sydney | Merchant, Piers |
| Clappison, James | Moate, Sir Roger |
| Clarke, Rt Hon Kenneth (Ruclif) | Neubert, Sir Michael |
| Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey | Newton, Rt Hon Tony |
| Coombs, Simon (Swindon) | Nicholls, Patrick |
| Cope, Rt Hon Sir John | Page, Richard |
| Cran, James | Patnick, Irvine |
| Currie, Mrs Edwina (S D'by'ire) | Pawsey, James |
| Davies, Quentin (Stamford) | Porter, David (Waveney) |
| Davis, David (Boothferry) | Redwood, John |
| Devlin, Tim | Richards, Rod |
| Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James | Riddick, Graham |
| Dover, Den | Roberts, Rt Hon Sir Wyn |
| Duncan, Alan | Robertson, Raymond (Ab'd'n S) |
| Duncan-Smith, Iain | Robinson, Mark (Somerton) |
| Dunn, Bob | Ryder, Rt Hon Richard |
| Elletson, Harold | Shaw, David (Dover) |
| Evans, Jonathan (Brecon) | Sims, Roger |
| Faber, David | Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield) |
| Fabricant, Michael | Speed, Sir Keith |
| Fenner, Dame Peggy | Spencer, Sir Derek |
| Fishburn, Dudley | Spink, Dr Robert |
| Foster, Don (Bath) | Sproat, Iain |
| Freeman, Roger | Steel, Rt Hon Sir David |
| Gale, Roger | Steen, Anthony |
| Gallie, Phil | Stephen, Michael |
| Gardiner, Sir George | Stern, Michael |
| Garel-Jones, Rt Hon Tristan | Stewart, Allan |
| Gill, Christopher | Streeter, Gary |
| Goodson-Wickes, Dr Charles | Sykes, John |
| Greenway, Harry (Ealing N) | Taylor, Ian (Esher) |
| Greenway, John (Ryedale) | Thomason, Roy |
| Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth, N) | Thurnham, Peter |
| Hague, William | Trend, Michael |
| Hanley, Jeremy | Twinn, Dr Ian |
| Harris, David | Tyler, Paul |
| Haselhurst, Alan | Viggers, Peter |
| Walden, George | Willetts, David |
| Waller, Gary | Wood, Timothy |
| Wardle, Charles (Bexhill) | |
| Waterson, Nigel | Tellers for the Ayes: |
| Wheeler, Rt Hon Sir John | Mr. David Lightbown and |
| Whittingdale, John | Mr. Andrew McKay. |
| Widdecombe, Ann | |
| NOES | |
| Bayley, Hugh | Jamieson, David |
| Bennett, Andrew F. | Jones, Barry (Alyn and D'side) |
| Callaghan, Jim | Jones, Jon Owen (Cardiff C) |
| Campbell-Savours, D. N. | Loyden, Eddie |
| Cann, Jamie | McAvoy, Thomas |
| Chisholm, Malcolm | Martin, Michael J. (Springburn) |
| Clark, Dr David (South Shields) | Morris, Estelle (B'ham Yardley) |
| Clwyd, Mrs Ann | O'Brien, William (Normanton) |
| Cohen, Harry | Parry, Robert |
| Connarty, Michael | Primarolo, Dawn |
| Cryer, Bob | Redmond, Martin |
| Davidson, Ian | Rooney, Terry |
| Dixon, Don | Skinner, Dennis |
| Fatchett, Derek | Spellar, John |
| Flynn, Paul | Taylor, Mrs Ann (Dewsbury) |
| Gerrard, Neil | Winnick, David |
| Godman, Dr Norman A. | Wise, Audrey |
| Gordon, Mildred | Wray, Jimmy |
| Graham, Thomas | |
| Gunnell, John | Tellers for the Noes: |
| Hood, Jimmy | Mr. Andrew Meale and |
| Illsley, Eric | Mr. Harry Barnes. |
§ Question accordingly agreed to.
§ Mr. A. J. Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed)On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. The confusion among hon. Members earlier about whether they should rise or sit to cast their vote may have arisen because they had forgotten that Standing Order No. 39 was invoked in July 1975 by the Labour Government against my right hon. Friends and myself and various Members present today, including the hon. Member for Bradford, South (Mr. Cryer).
Mr. Deputy SpeakerThe hon. Member should have said "under a Labour Government".
It might be for the convenience of the House if I try to clarify matters. I now have the second report of the Select Committee on Procedure from the 1976–77 Session, paragraph 5 of which on page 6 says:
Your Committee consider that the requirement to be covered should remain, and that any form of headgear should be acceptable, but that for reasons already stated, such articles as hankerchiefs or Order papers, which are instantly available to all Members, should not be accepted.The Committee considers that the same rule should apply to lady Members. It recommends that a second piece of headgear should be kept behind the Chair. I hope that hon. Members will accept that that is the reference that has guided me this evening.
§ Mr. Campbell-SavoursFurther to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Will you remind the right hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Mr. Beith), who I understood was a master of procedure, that he is wrong? A Labour Government did not exercise the procedure; Mr. Speaker did. Perhaps he should know the rule.
§ Mr. Campbell-SavoursWill you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, clarify the position with regard to wearing the hat? Many of us are deeply embarrassed at having to wear headgear of such a nature. [Interruption.] It is a fair point to make. We believe that it brings ridicule on Parliament and on us 1032 as Members. Therefore, as the proceedings of the House are now televised and transmitted all over the world, will you consider raising the matter with the Chairman of the Procedure Committee with a view to avoiding such embarrassment for Members?
Mr. Deputy SpeakerThe hon. Gentleman knows as well as I do that any Member can raise such a matter with the Procedure Committee. I shall cogitate on whether it is appropriate that I should, but the hon. Gentleman may wish to make his own submission. I hope that that has finished the issue of the hat.
§ Mr. CryerOn a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. During this evening's discussions and points of order, it has become clear that there are difficulties with the new microphone system. When hon. Members remain seated, as they are required to do during a Division, particularly those on the Front Bench, they are well out of range of the microphones. The new microphones were installed relatively recently, and clearly they are inadequate—particularly in respect of right hon. and hon. Members seated on the Front Benches near yourself, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
Also, the microphones are normally switched off until a right hon. or hon. Member is called, when the nearest microphone is switched on. However, there appears to be some delay in that respect. I did not hear, for example, the point of order of my hon. Friend the Member for Derbyshire, North-East (Mr. Barnes) because he was inaudible—not because of the noise in the Chamber but because of the lack of amplification. If this procedure is invoked again, that could lead to myriad points of order by seated right hon. and hon. Members. It might be helpful if the sound engineers could ascertain whether the microphones might be pointed downwards, so that points of order from seated right hon. and hon. Members wearing appropriate headgear might be heard.
Mr. Deputy SpeakerLife is full of difficulties, but I will bring the hon. Gentleman's point to the attention of the Supervisor of Broadcasting.
§ Mr. ConnartyOn a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. You quoted a definition to the effect that a readily available item would not be considered suitable headgear. You probably saw me labouring away at making this hat, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Would placing it behind the Chair be appropriate? Also, I am not someone who naturally wears a bonnet or an opera hat. Could not a decent, well-designed fedora also be placed behind the. Chair?
Mr. Deputy SpeakerI quoted the reference, and I urge the hon. Gentleman to read Hansard tomorrow morning and then decide on the kind of hat that he considers appropriate, within the rules of the House.
§ Dame Elaine Kellett-Bowman (Lancaster)On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Is it in order for the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner) to sit in that laconic way on the arm of his Bench?
§ Dr. GodmanOn a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I have been sitting here listening quietly to your various 1033 comments. Perhaps I may ask you, in what I hope is a typically polite way, whether you are in a position to reply to my earlier point of order about motion No. 19?