Points of Order (Hansard, 14 June 1993)

§ Mr. Paul Tyler (North Cornwall)
On a point of order, Madam Speaker. The House will know that parts of Cornwall and Devon have suffered similar devastation from flooding in recent days, including the weekend. I understand that the local authorities concerned are making an application to the Department of the Environment this afternoon as there has been not only devastation to property and roads but tragic loss of life.
I wonder whether you, Madam Speaker, have had an application from Ministers at the Department of the Environment to make an equal and comparable statement to the one made this afternoon by the Secretary of State for Wales? As yet, we have had no statement and no reassurance. People in the west country feel that there are double standards in this matter. If there has been an application, will there be a statement tomorrow?

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Environment (Mr. Tony Baldry)
Further to that point of order, Madam Speaker, I hope that I can be helpful.
I am aware that heavy rain and strong winds have caused severe flooding in many parts of England, including Cornwall. I am sure that the whole House wishes to express its condolences to the families of those who have died as a consequence of the flooding. However, as of yet, no requests for financial assistance have been received by—

§ Madam Speaker
Order. Is the Minister making a statement? I thought that he was responding to a point of order. The hon. Gentleman is placing me in some difficulty. I cannot allow a statement. If the hon. Gentleman is responding to a point of order, will he do so briefly?

§ Mr. Baldry
Further to that point of order, Madam Speaker. If local authorities in Cornwall make applications under the Bellwin rules, they will be considered promptly and carefully. As yet, no application has been made.

§ Mr. Matthew Taylor (Truro)
On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

§ Madam Speaker
Order. I think that the House is fully aware that the original question put to me concerned whether I had been told by a Minister that the Government were seeking to make a further statement on the flooding that, sadly, has affected many parts of the country. The answer to the point of order is that I have not been told by a Minister that he wishes to make a statement. The Minister has done his best to be helpful in this matter. I cannot allow questions to the Minister.

§ Mr. Taylor
On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

§ Madam Speaker
Is it a different point of order?

§ Mr. Taylor
Yes.

§ Madam Speaker
In that case, I will hear it.

§ Mr. Taylor
Thank you, Madam Speaker.
I think that the Minister has just attempted to make a statement. Would it not be appropriate for him to make a full statement to the House, and to answer questions?

§ Madam Speaker
I have already dealt with that point: I have said that the Minister was not making a statment, but trying to be helpful in response to a point of order. It has been made clear to Ministers that hon. Members want a statement to be made; we must leave it at that.

§ Mr. Tam Dalyell (Linlithgow)
On a point of order, Madam Speaker. Are you aware that the Sunday lunches of many of your parliamentary colleagues were greatly enhanced by your cheerful and elegant choice of records on "Desert Island Discs"?
May I ask why we were allowed only five minutes, rather than 10, for questions to the Lord President of the Council, for the first time in living memory? I had expected to be able to raise the cases of Simon Dunn—the prisoner who has been taken at Umm Qasr—and Kai Sondermann. In the context of the terrible things that have been happening to Iraqi babies—which I outlined on Friday, at columns 576–82—should not a Government statement be made about the cases of those unfortunate prisoners, the whole question of sanctions and the need for discussions about sanctions to take place with Iraq before anything is done about the prisoners?

§ Madam Speaker
The hon. Gentleman is very cunning. Many of us are very sad that his question was not reached today, but he must not try to make that a point of order for me. The length of time allowed for Ministers to answer questions is a matter for the usual channels, not for me.
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his earlier remarks. I hope he noted that I chose to take the Mace with me to the desert island: that might have given the House a few more days' recess until I was found.

§ Mr. Max Madden (Bradford, West)
On a point of order, Madam Speaker. This is a separate point of order, of which I gave you notice, about a matter affecting hon. Members' right to intervene in immigration cases—a most important right, which you will undoubtedly have exercised on numerous occasions in your constituency.
On Friday night, I was informed that a constituent, Mrs. Abida Parveen, had been arrested, and was to be deported to Pakistan on Saturday. I contacted Bradford police at 10.30 pm; however, the custody officer refused to disclose details of the arrangements for her deportation, the name or telephone number of the immigration officer concerned, the contact telephone number for her solicitor or the duty solicitor, and even information about the arrangements that were being made.
It is clear that the existing arrangements for hon. Members to make representations in emergency immigration cases—especially those concerning threatened deportation—have broken down. Will you consider—I emphasise the word "consider"—convening a Speaker's conference of interested parties in the House with the Home Office, the immigration service and the police, to ensure that new arrangements can be devised to give hon. Members a proper opportunity to intervene promptly and effectively, with the full co-operation of all the agencies concerned?

§ Madam Speaker
The hon. Gentleman is a longstanding Member of the House. He is raising with me a matter of Government policy. As a long-standing Member of Parliament, he knows that he could raise the matter 645 directly with the Minister concerned by various methods and procedures, and on various occasions, and receive the full reply that I know he seeks.

§ Mr. Madden
Further to that point of order, Madam Speaker. As you have rightly said, the existing arrangements are the Home Secretary's responsibility. It is now self-evident to many hon. Members that those arrangements have broken down. As the House constitutes the thin line between constituents' being deported—in many cases, unfairly and unlawfully—and their being given their full right to make representations, along with hon. Members, I am now appealing to you, Madam Speaker. I am asking whether you, as guardian of the rights of hon. Members and those of the House, will convene a conference which, hopefully, will be able to reach a conclusion and devise proper arrangements for hon. Members to make the representations that I seek to secure.

§ Madam Speaker
The hon. Gentleman has every right and opportunity to make representations through the usual procedures of the House. I cannot specify to him across the Floor of the House the procedures under which he could do so. If he wishes to come and see me, I shall be as helpful as possible. It is a matter for the hon. Gentleman. This is an individual case, and we must all represent our constituents to the best of our ability and in the way that the House allows us. I can take it no further at this stage.

§ Mr. David Harris (St. Ives)
I am sorry to raise the question of flooding again, but could I—

§ Madam Speaker
Order.

§ Mr. Harris
It is a point of order.

§ Madam Speaker
That is better.

§ Mr. Harris
On a point of order, Madam Speaker. Can you help me with a difficulty facing the House? As you will 646 remember, at Question Time I attempted to ask the Secretary of State for Wales whether what he was announcing for Wales was the equivalent of the system for England. You rightly said that he was not responsible for the Bellwin rules as applied to England. If I put the same question to an Environment Minister, he would no doubt say that he was not responsible for the rules in Wales.
What I and my parliamentary colleagues from Cornwall in particular are concerned to do, in the light of the flooding that we have just suffered, is to establish that the ground rules of what has been announced today by the Secretary of State for Wales also apply to England. Can you advise me, Madam Speaker, on how I can get an answer to that question?

§ Madam Speaker
The hon. Gentleman has been here a long time. He knows that he can table a written or oral question. If he has any problem with procedure, he should apply to the usual channels, or come to see me and I shall be pleased to advise him.