"Scotland in the Union—a partnership for good" (Hansard, 9 June 1993)

§ 5. Mr. Galloway
To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what further steps he has taken to assess public opinion in Scotland on his White Paper "Scotland in the Union—a partnership for good".

§ Mr. Lang
The White Paper "Scotland in the Union —a partnership for good" has received a very positive response.

§ Mr. Galloway
The dogs in the street are laughing at that answer. As the Secretary of State surveys the sea of. troubles in which his unrepresentative rump is floundering, does he ever gaze across the water to Barcelona, where the Catalan conservative party, Convergence in Union, is outstandingly successful notwithstanding its conservative free-market views? It is successful because it flies its free market colours as well as its Catalan colours and is not seen as a traitor to its own people.
Would not the Secretary of State be well advised to study that example and organise a democratic referendum in Scotland, in which all the options facing the Scottish people could be tested? He could do himself and his party a favour and respect the democratic rights of the Scots by organising a referendum on this risible White Paper.

§ Mr. Lang
In terms of unrepresentative rumps, I am not sure whether I can hold a candle to the hon. Gentleman, since he quite clearly disagrees with, and is disagreed with by, the rest of his parliamentary party. When I look for public opinion support in Scotland, I look at a recent by-election in Turriff, which was won by the Conservative candidate with an increase of 300 in his vote. He beat the Scottish National party into second place by 700 votes. That is an endorsement by public opinion in Scotland. The Labour party's membership throughout Scotland has fallen to 17,834. That is representative of very little.

§ Mr. Raymond S. Robertson
Does my right hon. Friend agree that before any political party in Scotland can claim to speak for and, indeed, be representative of the Scottish people, it must first be representative throughout the length and breadth of Scotland? By its own admission, the Labour party, with only 17,000 members, may be many things, but it is not representative.

§ Mr. Lang
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. It was quite clear from the result of the last general election that the policies espoused by the Labour party were not supported.

§ Dr. Reid
Have we not reached a pathetic and sorry pass when an English Tory, the hon. Member for Mid-Staffordshire (Mr. Fabricant) could recognise in Question 1 the distinctiveness—indeed, he used the word "uniqueness"—of Scottish culture better than the Secretary of State for Scotland?
Is it not pathetic that our country is presided over by a Prime Minister who boasts that he does not read our national newspaper and by four Scottish Office Ministers who have no idea of our national aspirations? If they believe that they represent Scotland in any way, why will they not do what my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Hillhead (Mr. Galloway) asked, and organise a referendum to let, the people of Scotland speak? That would be better than subjecting us to mealy-mouthed quotes.

§ Mr. Lang
It was my noble Friend lady Thatcher who described a referendum as device to defeat democracy. I believe that the proposals in the White Paper will lead to the improvement of the handling of Scottish business here. I have written to the leaders of the other political parties and I am glad to say that the leader of the Scottish National Party has written back to me indicating that she is willing to take part in discussions on behalf of her party over the implementation of the proposals in the White Paper, "Scotland in the Union—a partnership for good."

§ Mr. Trimble
Does the Secretary of State intend to convene an all-party conference in Scotland on the White Paper? If he does not, does he appreciate the contrast between himself, who apparently does not want talks but has a policy, and his colleague the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, who wants talks but does not have a policy?

§ Mr. Lang
I do not propose to call the conference to which the hon. Gentleman refers, but I have indicated my willingness, indeed my enthusiasm, to discuss our proposals in detail with the leaders of the other political parties in Scotland. One of the distinctive features of the United Kingdom is the diversity of its component parts and one of the purposes of the White Paper is to accommodate that diversity as it is reflected in Scotland.

§ Mr. McLeish
Will the Secretary of State own up to the fact that public opinion in Scotland is of marginal interest to his beleaguered Administration? Does he not accept that only 16 per cent. of public opinion now supports the Conservative party, that 98 per cent. of public opinion overwhelmingly opposes the madcap idea of privatising water and that 80 per cent. of Scots want substantial constitutional change rather than Tory tinkering at Westminster? Surely the Secretary of State will accept that if public opinion is to triumph, he must mend his ways.
271 More importantly, if it is to triumph, he must show that he is listening, or are we to see in future Tory losses mounting in Scotland at the same rate as his losses in Lloyd's?

§ Mr. Lang
Public opinion polls are, of course, of interest to the Labour party as its popularity is shown rather highly in them from time to time. The hon. Gentleman will understand why I regard them with a certain detached approach, given their predictions before the last general election. The poll which matters in a democratic country such as ours is the general election poll. That is the poll which leads to the choice of a Government.