§ 1. Mr. Jon Owen JonesTo ask the Secretary of State for Defence what is his Department's estimate of the number of people employed in the defence industry in the United Kingdom.
§ The Minister of State for Defence Procurement (Mfr. Jonathan Aitken)We estimate that approximately 500,000 people are directly or indirectly employed in the United Kingdom defence industry.
§ Mr. JonesThe Minister will know that there are many jobs in the defence industry, but does he realise that those jobs are most unfairly distributed? There is one post for every 300 individuals in the east and west midlands, one post for every 300 individuals in Wales, but only one post for every 700 individuals in the north of England and one post for every 130 individuals in the most prosperous part of Britain, the south-east of England. Will he consider the implications of distributing the jobs more fairly when he considers job cuts in the defence industry?
§ Mr. AitkenI was fascinated by the hon. Gentleman's statistics. They seemed to come from one who labours under the delusion that he is still an old-fashioned, unreconstructed, socialist planner. It is not the Government who direct where defence companies put their factories or locate their offices. Those decisions are taken by companies themselves. My Department places its contracts on a value-for-money basis with the best possible firms. That is the only correct policy for a Government Department to follow.
§ Mr. DevlinWhen the Minister considers not only the defence industry but the civilians in his Department, will he look at the implications of moving those people around the country as a part of "Options for Change"? Will he confirm that the cost of moving a person from one region to another has now risen to a figure in excess of £40,000? If that is the case, how can my hon. Friend justify concentrating the naval support command in Bath away from the north-east of England?
§ Mr. AitkenUnlike the previous questioner, my hon. Friend is at least right to concentrate on something for which the Ministry of Defence has responsibility—the location of its own personnel—although, of course, it is not directly related to defence industries. We are careful to take into account the costs of relocation, which are expensive these days. I cannot comment on the individual case raised by my hon. Friend, but we will certainly consider it in the light of his representations.
§ Dr. David ClarkIs the Minister aware that with the cuts in defence spending, more than 100,000 men and women working in defence-related industries have lost their jobs and that many more face redundancy? Does the Minister feel no responsibility at all towards those workers and will he set up a defence diversification agency to ensure that the skills of those workers are retained for Britain's manufacturing effort?
§ Mr. AitkenThat is another unreconstructed, old-fashioned socialist idea: creating a Government quango at the taxpayers' expense to do a job for which Governments are not qualified. It is not for Governments to direct companies on where they should diversify their efforts. I recognise the sadness that the hon. Gentleman feels about the loss of defence jobs, but, as he well knows, the strategic environment has completely changed. The figures that he quoted cannot be reconciled with those produced by the House of Commons Library, which show that not 100,000 but 52,000 jobs have been lost in the past two years. One job lost is one too many, but there is no point in crying for a defence diversification agency, which would only increase the amount of money that is wasted by Government.
§ Mr. Mark RobinsonMy hon. Friend is, I am sure, aware of what the consequences would have been if the Labour party had been in power and had implemented its policy of reducing defence expenditure to the European average. What effect would that have had on defence jobs in this country?
§ Mr. AitkenMy hon. Friend is right to point out that the policies of the Labour party, which proposed a cut in defence spending of one third, would have reduced jobs in defence industries by more than a third. About 150,000 jobs or more could have been lost in defence industries if its policies had been implemented.