HC Deb 07 July 1993 vol 228 cc322-4
8. Mr. Dalyell

To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what reassessment he has made of the Touche Ross report on local government reform.

Mr. Lang

We have taken account of the wide range of comments received on the Touche Ross report on local government reform. I intend to include our revised estimates of costs and savings in, the White Paper setting out our local government reform proposals, which I hope to publish shortly.

Mr. Dalyell

Will the Secretary of State give the House of Commons a clear, unambiguous assurance that no part of public expenditure in Scotland will be cut because of the transition costs of local government reform or its on-going costs? Do we have that clear assurance?

Mr. Lang

The transition costs of local government reform will have to be borne from the resources available to the Scottish Office block. However, as the figures that I shall publish in the forthcoming White Paper will show, the cost of transition will be recovered quickly as a result of the savings to be had from single-tier all-purpose authorities.

Mr. David Shaw

Will my right hon. Friend assure the House that savings from local government reform will take place in a manner that will benefit the people of Scotland and the United Kingdom? Will he ensure that the incompetence and corruption of Monklands district council is squeezed dry by local government reform so that that council is in a better financial state and we stop the £1 million a year wasted on the Quadrant shopping centre development and the £3 million a year wasted on the leisure development, which is costing people in that area a considerable sum of money?

Mr. Lang

On the first part of my hon. Friend's question I am happy to give him the assurance that he seeks. On the second part, when the Government bring forward proposals for reform, he will be able to judge for himself whether his anxieties are met.

Mr. Hood

Has Touche Ross made any recommendations on the number of councillors who will be required under local government reform? When the Secretary of State presents his White Paper to the House, will it cover any recommendations on the number of councillors? Has that been addressed in the White Paper, and will we be able to discuss it?

Mr. Lang

Touche Ross did not make recommendations on the number of local authority councillors, although in preparing its report, it had to make a number of assumptions across a broad range about the number of officials who would be involved in certain areas of local government expenditure. On the question whether that matter will be addressed in the Government's forthcoming White Paper, I must ask the hon. Gentleman to contain his soul in patience.

Mr. Salmond

I listened carefully to the Secretary of State's earlier remarks. He was extremely careful not to deny the accuracy of The Scotsman leak. Does he not think that the gerrymandering of Scottish local government boundary lines is too high a price to pay for keeping a blue rose on the lapel of his hon. Friend the Member for Eastwood (Mr. Stewart)? Does he not understand that, with 16 per cent. of the vote for the Tory party, it is geometrically impossible to draw lines in a way that guarantees safe havens for his party? Does he think that a Secretary of State who has failed on Ravenscraig, Rosyth and the Euro-seats and who is now gerrymandering Scottish local government is fit to occupy that high office?

Mr. Lang

I have already made it clear that the Government do not comment on allegedly leaked documents. Therefore, the rest of the hon. Gentleman's question falls.

Mr. John D. Taylor

As local authorities have a statutory requirement to advertise certain of their activities in the local newspapers, does the Secretary of State accept that he has failed in not taking action against Monklands district council, which campaigned against the local newspaper, and instead is awaiting the outcome of the Touche Ross report?

Mr. Lang

I have certain statutory powers, but they are limited. I assure the right hon. Gentleman that I have given close consideration to the matter and I continue to keep a close watch on it.

Mr. Tom Clarke

Does the Secretary of State accept that the Touche Ross figures to which he gave so much regard are fatally flawed and therefore make this whole exercise inappropriate? Will he accept that the House is sick and tired of his teasing at the Dispatch Box about when the White Paper is to be published? When will it be published? When will we know? Perhaps more importantly, will he accept that, given that this whole exercise is fatally flawed, he ought to do the decent thing, abandon it, and appoint an independent commission that can do justice to the whole of Scottish local government?

Mr. Lang

The Touche Ross report is far from being flawed. The Convention of Scottish Local Authorities co-operated in the preparation of that report and all the signs from subsequent work by consultants for other local authorities and from other submissions to the Government show that the broad trend of the Touche Ross report is accurate. That report made a certain number of assumptions, which it had to do in the context of the work that it was carrying out. More detailed submissions have led to some of those assumptions being refined further, but the broad trend of the report remains as it was. If anyone is discredited on the question of the cost of local government reform, it is the hon. Member for Monklands, West (Mr. Clarke). We have not forgotten his belief, publicly stated without qualification, that the cost of local government reform would be £600 million. The hon. Gentleman is in for a shock, which for him will probably be a sad one.