HC Deb 25 January 1993 vol 217 cc706-7
29. Mr. Tony Banks

To ask the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what has been the total cost of the charter programme; and what proposals there are for more charters.

Mr. Waldegrave

The charter applies to all public services and is reflected in their individual expenditure programmes. Centrally, the charter unit spent £1.6 million in 1991–92.

Mr. Banks

When is the Minister going to accept that this is a complete waste of public money? The charters are just a public relations exercise: it is rather like putting make-up on a corpse. The best way to make public services work is to invest in them and not to issue glossy pamphlets which are nothing more than a PR puff for the Downing street train spotter.

Mr. Waldegrave

The hon. Gentleman is perhaps the definitive member of the chattering classes. The citizens charter is of more interest and of more use to those who rely primarily on those services. That is why we are putting such political force behind achieving those improvements. The hon. Gentleman might direct his London weight to improvements closer to home—perhaps in some of the services provided by Labour Lambeth council.

Mr. Tracey

May I take my right hon. Friend further on that point? Will he send in advisers to suggest an appropriate charter for the unfortunate people in Lambeth who have, it seems, been so ill-treated recently by their local authority?

Mr. Waldegrave

A number of Opposition Members, including most honourably the hon. Member for Vauxhall (Ms. Hoey), would support what my hon. Friend said. Members of the Tribune group are also much committed to that. Tribune recently wrote: Labour local government is lacklustre and incompetent. In a few cases it is simply corrupt and nepotistic. This is nothing new. That is the view of the Tribune group, members of which are present on the Opposition Benches at this very moment.

Ms. Mowlam

I think that we will leave the question of lacklustre when it comes to the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster. Would not it be more appropriate to consider whether there may have been any conflict of interest or morally dubious practices in respect of the market testing part of the citizens charter and consider also the London conference, to which the Chancellor has just referred, where KPMG Peat Marwick, which hosted the reception, also received at least 36 contracts last year from Government Departments in respect of market testing? Will the right hon. Gentleman give a commitment today that, in the interests of open government, in his forthcoming paper he will publish the names of those companies which applied for contracts and at what price they were awarded? Surely the British public have a right to know.

Mr. Waldegrave

I do not know whether the hon. Lady is making a serious allegation of fraud. The contracts were all properly placed according to all the rules of contracting. Those matters are entirely open. If the hon. Lady wishes to pursue the matter, perhaps she had better consider what she says a little more carefully.