National Audit Office (Hansard, 11 January 1993)

§ 29. Mr. Bayley
To ask the Chairman of the Public Accounts Commission what assessment he has made of the effect on the budgetary requirements of the National Audit Office of the introduction of citizens charters in Government Departments.

§ The Chairman of the Public Accounts Commission (Sir Peter Hordern)
The National Audit Office's corporate plan for 1993–94 to 1997–98 confirms that the National Audit Office's strategy is to take account of and respond positively to the citizens charter initiative.

§ Mr. Bayley
Is the National Audit Office in a position to make a detatched and independent evaluation of the effectiveness and efficiency of the citizens charter initiative? If not, who is?

§ Sir Peter Hordern
I very much hope so. The National Audit Office has been making reports about the quality of service for many years. Several reports were given to the Public Accounts Committee only last year. The NAO, is therefore, fully qualified to carry out this initiative.

§ Dr. Kim Howells
Does the Chairman also acknowledge that the Public Accounts Commission has been extremely worried about the lack of accountability of some, for want of a better term, quangos? There are grave worries that the next steps agencies could go down the same road and that this time next year we shall find ourselves expressing worries about the new agencies, just as we are expressing worries now about the existing ones.

§ Sir Peter Hordern
I am sure that those points will have been made to the Comptroller and Auditor General. If he is very concerned about it, as he may well be, he in his turn will come before the Commission and ask for help and extra resources. So far, however, the Comptroller and Auditor General has expressed himself fully satisfied with the resources that have been made available to him.

§ 30. Mr. Michael
To ask the Chairman of the Public Accounts Commission what assessment he has made of the effect on the funding requirements of the National Audit Office of changes in the organisation of the national health service.

§ Sir Peter Hordern
The National Audit Office's corporate plan for 1993–94 to 1997–98 takes account of the need to examine known changes in the machinery of Government, which includes NHS reforms.

§ Mr. Michael
Can the Chairman assure us that the Commission is aware of the fact that, irrespective of changes of management, of trusts, or anything else, people still regard their local hospital as their hospital? That is certainly true of Llandough hospital in my constituency. My constituents want that hospital to get a fair crack of the whip in terms of finance and contracts. Can the Chairman assure us that there will be a mechanism in place, and the staff, to investigate the way in which all financial arrangements are made and to ensure that money is allocated and accounted for properly in this new climate of ever-increasing numbers of quangos and trusts?

§ Sir Peter Hordern
Of course it is important that the National Audit Office should have the power and the capacity to look at the reforms and how they are carried out. The NAO has carried out a number of reviews. Only last year there were eight, and seven the year before, which were brought before the Public Accounts Commission. I am sure that the Comptroller and Auditor General will read what the hon. Gentleman has said, for he has raised a very important point.

§ Mrs. Dunwoody
Can the right hon. Gentleman assure us that the Commission will look closely at National Audit Commission reports that refer to specific scandals in the national health service? It is becoming increasingly clear that the opportunities of the so-called internal market are being exploited, not for the good of patients, but for those who want to rip off the taxpayer, because it is seen as an easy mark.

§ Sir Peter Hordern
I cannot comment generally on what the hon. Lady says. However, I hope that she will put any specific examples to the Comptroller and Auditor General.

§ Mr. John Marshall
Will my right hon. Friend point out to the National Audit Office that the internal market has led to an increase in the number of patients being treated and a reduction in waiting lists? The internal market is seen as good value for money for patients.

§ Sir Peter Hordern
I have no doubt that the Comptroller and Auditor General will report on this, as on any other matters.