Points of Order (Hansard, 23 February 1993)

§ Mr. David Winnick (Walsall, North)
On a point of order, Madam Speaker. Will you confirm that it is entirely a matter for the House to decide on the progress or otherwise of any Bill and that as, so far at least, we remain an independent country, it is certainly not for those abroad, whoever they may be and whatever high authority they may have—be they Chancellor Kohl or anyone else —to tell us how to go about our business? Will you confirm that, because it would be most unfortunate if there were any feelings in the House that pressure is being applied from outside the country by Heads of Government to influence how and when we should decide on the Maastricht Bill?

§ Madam Speaker
I do not think that any of us in the House, including all 651 Members, give any thought to what anyone else says outside about the way we proceeed. It is for the House itself—all 651 of us—to decide what we are going to do.

§ Mr. David Harris (St. Ives)
On a point of order, Madam Speaker. Although I very much welcome the Prime Minister's remarks on the disgraceful blockading of fish by the French, is it possible for a statement to be made in the House today on the precise action that the Government will take, in view of the mounting anger of fishermen and fish merchants, especially in Cornwall, who find that they cannot get their fish to France?

§ Madam Speaker
I hope that the hon. Gentleman is not seeking a continuation of Prime Minister's Question Time, but I have no doubt that those on the Government Front Bench have heard what he has to say.

§ Mr. David Jamieson (Plymouth, Devonport)
Further to that point of order, Madam Speaker. Has the Minister of Agriculture asked to come to the House to make a statement about the disgraceful actions yesterday of French fishermen in Roskoff, who have caused the suspension of the ferry service from Plymouth which takes our exports abroad?

§ Madam Speaker
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I have just given.

§ Mr. Patrick Nicholls (Teignbridge)
On a point of order, Madam Speaker. You will recall that, on 3 December last, I had to bring to the attention of the House the fact that the hon. Member for Neath (Mr. Hain) had been using pre-paid stationery in connection with a fund-raising exercise for the Tribune group. As a result of my having brought that to the House's attention, I understand that he was admonished by the Serjeant at Arms and subsequently refunded the money. Needless to say, I gave the hon. Gentleman notice of what I intended to say on that occasion, and have done so again.
Unhappily, I have now discovered that this practice has not finished. I have before me an unsolicited letter which was sent to a member of the public, inviting him to go to a fund-raising dinner. It apparently builds on the success of the first dinner, when 200 guests raised more than £500—

§ Madam Speaker
Order. I think that I understand the hon. Gentleman's point of order. I am not interested in all 766 the frills on this, but if he puts a point of order directly to me, I shall hear it [Interruption.] Order. Hon. Gentlemen will not be wasting time like this when they see how many wish to speak in today's major debate.

§ Mr. Nicholls
The point of order that I have for you, Madam Speaker, is straightforward and simple. Although the matter came before the House previously, the complaint was not dealt with, and the hon. Gentleman is still using pre-paid stationery for private purposes. Given that clear abuse, what steps can you take to ensure that the taxpayer does not have to pay for fund-raising activities on behalf of a political party?

§ Mr. Peter Hain (Neath)
Further to that point of order, Madam Speaker. I have had absolutely no notice of this complaint. I reject the hon. Gentleman's assertion, which is a disgraceful attempt to divert attention from the real business of the House, and I deprecate his intervention.

Several Hon. Members
rose—

§ Madam Speaker
Order. Let me deal with the point of order. The hon. Member for Teignbridge (Mr. Nicholls) has alleged that a second offence has occurred and I take that seriously. The hon. Member for Neath (Mr. Hain) says that he had not been notified. I take the point of the hon. Member for Teignbridge, that the hon. Member for Neath had been notified, but perhaps the hon. Gentleman has not yet received that notification. In any event—

§ Mr. Phillip Oppenheim (Amber Valley)
rose—

§ Madam Speaker
Order. I am on my feet.
I shall of course report this alleged second offence, which I take seriously, to the Serjeant at Arms and the appropriate Committee.

§ Mr. Alun Michael (Cardiff, South and Penarth)
On a point of order, Madam Speaker. I am sure that it would not be the intention of any Minister to mislead the House, but in the response that I was given to an earlier question about the provision of secure units, information was given to the House which is simply not true. The Minister sought to suggest that a Labour-controlled council, South Glamorgan, was preventing the provision of secure places for young people. I wish to tell the House—

§ Madam Speaker
Order. I am not here for the hon. Gentleman to give information to the House. I am here to deal with a point of order, namely a breach of either our standing orders or our procedures. Will he raise a point of order that I can deal with?

§ Mr. Michael
I understand your point, Madam Speaker, and I hope that I am correct in putting it this way. Two years ago, South Glamorgan asked for the money to provide secure places—

§ Madam Speaker
Order. I am sorry, but the hon. gentleman is not understanding me correctly. I have to deal with a strict point of order that concerns the proceedings of the House. I understand entirely what the hon. Gentleman is trying to bring to my attention, but he must do it more precisely and more briskly so that I, as Speaker of the House, can deal with it. I am not in a position to deal with a political argument.

§ Mr. Michael
I hope that I will get it correct now, Madam Speaker. How can I put right the misinformation that was given to the House when the Minister suggested 767 incorrectly that South Glamorgan, which asked for finances to provide secure places locally, but has been blocked for two years by the Welsh Office—

§ Madam Speaker
Order. Perhaps I can help the hon. Gentleman. I do not give guidance across the Floor of the House, but if I can point him in the right direction, I have no doubt that the Table Office will be able to help him.

§ Mr. Dennis Skinner (Bolsover)
In view of what happened last night when the Government Whips, or perhaps it was the Government themselves, did not seem to know what to do, can I ask you, Madam Speaker whether there are any facilities under your jurisdiction for what I would call Government whipping classes so that they can understand how to do their job. If you cannot take the Chair in these proceedings, perhaps you could ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer, because he is an expert on whipping.

§ Madam Speaker
Had I not such a busy schedule myself, I would be prepared to take on some seminars for hon. Members in all parts of the House.

§ Mr. Seamus Mallon (Newry and Armagh)
While noting with satisfaction the court decision in relation to the Belfast, West seat, and not missing the irony of those who appealed over the heads of the electorate of the Belfast, West to a court for a decision in their favour, may I ask you, Madam Speaker, to use the weight of your office to look at the entire electoral regulations, which are anachronistic in many ways, so that no other hon. Member will be put through the difficulties that my hon. Friend the Member for Belfast, West (Dr. Hendron) had to endure?

§ Madam Speaker
That is not a matter for the Speaker of the House. It is governed by an Act of Parliament. Some time may be found in the future to look at the entire matter.