§ ' . In section 299 of the Housing (Scotland) Act 1987, at the end of subsection 1(B), there shall be added—
§ "(1A) In particular in any such proceedings for the recovery of damages or compensation where it can be shown that the public sector authority has been derelict in its duty to issue a notice of defect to a prospective purchaser of a defective house, the sheriff shall have the express power to issue a decree applying the remedies available under section 278 of this Act.". '—[Mr. Kirkwood.]
§ Brought up, and read the First time.
6.30 pm§ Mr. Archy Kirkwood (Roxburgh and Berwickshire)I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
I am aware that this is an important strategic debate about housing and urban planning. I am also conscious of the fact that Third Reading is yet to come and that hon. Members want to reach that stage as soon as possible. 1026 However, I wish to take a few minutes of the time of the House to deal with what I believe to be an unfortunate matter in my constituency with which only Parliament can deal.
I could detain the House for some time discussing the background to the circumstances which have provoked me to table my new clause, but I will deal briefly with the matter as I know that the Minister is aware of it and has taken an interest in it. I pay tribute to his officials for the help that they have given me and for their understanding of the complexities of the matter. I hope that the Minister will continue to take an interest and that he will be as sympathetic as possible.
The new clause would give explicit and additional powers to the sheriff in the Scottish courts in adjudicating matters which come under the original Housing Defects Act 1984, as amended by the Housing (Scotland) Act 1987. Those Acts deal with former council houses which are deemed to be statutorily defective. The new clause is necessary because of a sequence of events which have occurred through a combination of bad luck and a simple omission by a local authority.
The results have been dire in the way in which they have affected the future of 20 families living in Whitson-Fairhurst-type properties in Hawick in my constituency. It is no exaggeration to say that the lives of those people, as well as their homes, have been blighted by what has happened. All the families are previous local authority tenants; all of them exercised their right to buy, as they were entitled to do, under the 1981 legislation; all live in houses which are superficially desirable—well kept, well decorated and well tended—but those houses are now known to be statutorily defective.
Under the original 1984 Act, tenants seeking to buy their homes had a statutory right to be told that the effective market value of their homes was nil. I do not want to apportion blame, but for whatever reason the families concerned were not told about their statutory right and in good faith they took out mortgages on houses which are not saleable in today's market. Because of that act of omission, and because the truth about their properties has only just come to light, they have missed the deadline for the statutory protection which would have been afforded to them under the 1984 Act. Because they have no alternative, they are now forced to fall back on common law and the provisions of the 1987 Act in taking their case to the courts.
The architects of the 1987 Act specifically and properly included a clause giving the sheriff the right to adjudicate on any disputes involving defective houses. However, neither the architects of the Act nor the Ministers who took it through the House could have foreseen the effect of such a simple but damning omission on the families involved. The problem for the lawyers and, indeed, for the sheriff when he adjudicates on any such case, is how to quantify the loss that those families have sustained. I am a former provincial lawyer, so I understand only too well that it is an impossible calculation. No scales of justice are available to the sheriff, the lawyers or anyone else to help to make a fair and clear judgment about the extent of the loss sustained by those families.
On the one hand, having considered precisely that problem, Parliament made it clear that nothing less than 95 per cent. of the unaffected market value would be sufficient recompense for people in that position. On the other hand, the sheriff will be adjudicating on an action for 1027 damages under common law and he will not have access to the 1984 Act, as amended by the 1987 Act. He does not have any easy way of deciding the level of compensation that should be offered to those families. I understand that my new clause may be technically defective, but the intention behind it is to give the sheriff the additional option of providing the same remedy as would have been available if those families had had the protection of the 1984 Act. The new clause is carefully crafted and controlled to ensure that there is a limit on the amount of compensation.
The problem has been distressing for the families involved, but I again acknowledge the departmental officials who have helped me to pick my way through the problem. The local authority and the insurers advising it have all been doing their level best to find a remedy. The solicitors acting for the families have also been doing their best, taking account of Lanark council's opinion, to obtain an effective remedy. Everyone has done everything possible under existing law to provide an effective remedy, but no one outside the realms of central Government has the power to do so. There needs to be some form of Government intervention to provide that remedy.
The new clause is the only way that I could think of to provide a means of avoiding the problem of retrospection. It would make a power available to the sheriff in future. The families are currently considering whether to accept an offer from the insurance company which is advising the council. That offer is not ungenerous, so far as it goes, but if the additional power provided by the new clause were on the statute book by the summer—the timetable envisaged for the Bill—any court proceedings initiated by the families in the autumn, for example, would have a better prospect than they have at present.
Obviously, learned counsel would have to advise the agents individually, but if the Government could look favourably at least on the spirit of the amendment, that would give fresh hope to a group of honest citizens who through no fault of their own have been through a financially and emotionally trying experience and who not unreasonably look to Parliament for some effective redress.
§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Scotland (Lord James Douglas-Hamilton)I will not reply at length to the hon. Gentleman, but I have listened carefully to his remarks and he presented a persuasive case. It is my intention, if this is at all possible, to bring forward a Government amendment in another place if necessary. Given that undertaking, I hope that the hon. Gentleman will feel able to withdraw his new clause.
We shall consider issues involving dates, and all the implications, and we intend to bring forward a suitable amendment in another place if necessary. It is my belief that that will be necessary. I thank the hon. Gentleman for his contribution; we shall do our best.
§ Mr. KirkwoodI beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.
Motion and clause, by leave, withdrawn.
Order Jar Third Reading read. —[Queen's consent, on behalf of the Crown, signified.]
§ The Secretary of State for the Environment (Mr. Michael Howard)I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.
Our general election manifesto made clear our commitment to Britain's housing and to the reinvigoration of our inner cities. The Bill contains far-reaching measures to achieve that. It takes forward no fewer than 10 specific manifesto commitments which will increase the opportunity for our citizens to own and to control the houses in which they live, which secure a better deal for council tenants, and which will help to transform our cities and to restore the civic pride that too often has been strangled by years of municipal socialism.
In 1980 we introduced the right to buy. Labour's eventual conversion to the right to buy was as inevitable and predictable as its initial outright opposition. Labour could not stand in the way of more than I million council tenants who eagerly seized the opportunity to own their own homes.
The rents-to-mortgage scheme introduced by the Bill will give tenants a new route into home ownership. Labour described those proposals as irrelevant. It does not care about council tenants who want to buy but who cannot afford to do so outright. We do care. We will re-launch the drive to home ownership and we will make sure that tenants are well aware of their new rights. Many will think that now is the time to take advantage of low prices, low interest rates, and generous discounts. The only question is when Labour will see the benefit this time. Will it do so before the next election, or will it wait until it loses that election and then continue its salami tactics of adopting our policies bit by bit?
Will Labour Members say of this Bill, as they said of so many others, "Aren't you lucky that you didn't vote for us last time? Think of all those mistaken policies—the error of which we now concede—that we would have thrust upon the people of this country if they had been foolish enough to vote for us at the election."
§ Mr. John Battle (Leeds, West)What is the Government's view of the 70,000 council leaseholders who exercised their right to buy but who now find that they have a massive repair lease, which means that some receive bills as high as £58,000 each? As a result, many of those tenants are in danger of losing their homes. What will the Government do about that? Many believe that those tenants were not well informed by the Government when they exercised their right to buy.
§ Mr. HowardI well understand why the hon. Gentleman is keen to divert attention from the Bill's provisions and his party's abysmal record. He knows perfectly well the answer to his question—that we are engaged in discussions with the Council of Mortgage Lenders to see what steps can be taken to alleviate the problems to which the hon. Gentleman referred. I strongly urge him to desist from his diversionary tactics and to return—painful though this may be for him—to the subject matter of the Bill.
Our manifesto promised to revolutionise the management of council housing. The Bill does precisely that. It gives tenants the right to manage—a right undreamed of by Labour. On Sunday, the Leader of the Opposition said that his party should adopt a 1029
new politics that puts people first, that rejects dogma and embraces political common sense solutions".Alas, the right hon. and learned Gentleman forgot to tell his hon. Friends on the Labour Front Bench, and in particular the hon. Member for Leeds, West (Mr. Battle), that bureaucracy was outmoded and dogma was to be rejected. The hon. Member for Leeds, West still wants to keep the ineffectual veto that we are replacing with a right to real involvement in the management process from start to finish. He still puts the interests of local authorities, however inefficient they are, before the interests of tenants.
§ Mr. SoleyWill the Secretary of State answer a question that other Ministers have consistently refused to answer? I know that the right hon. and learned Gentleman is not good at answering questions, but perhaps he will try. If a council is providing a good service and the tenants are happy with that service, why should they have to pay to be transferred when they do not want that? At the same time, a private sector tenant may have a landlord who has been harassing him imprisoned but the tenant still has no right to transfer. When will the Secretary of State take tenants' rights seriously?
§ Mr. HowardThere is a simple answer to the hon. Gentleman's question. If the council's management is as good as the hon. Gentleman suggested, it would win the contract. That is the essence of competitive tendering—a concept which remains wholly alien to Labour, despite recent attempts to pretend to embrace it.
Part I of the Bill was considered at length yesterday. I believe that there is widespread acceptance of the principle of leasehold reform, even among those who expressed doubts about some of the detailed provisions of the Bill. Our proposals are directed clearly at people who have long leases at a low rent and who are generally regarded as owners of their premises. They will not have an adverse impact on the renting market, which we want to prosper. I can certainly reassure my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Dame Jill Knight) on that point.
§ Dame Jill Knight (Birmingham, Edgbaston)Will my right hon. and learned Friend take this opportunity to make it absolutely clear that it is not the Government's intention to move into the rest of the rented market? I refer particularly to his statement that the object is that all tenants should
own and … control the houses in which they live".Will my right hon. and learned Friend make it amply clear that he is not talking about the private rented sector?
§ Mr. HowardI am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving me this opportunity to clarify that aspect and to give the reassurance that she seeks. As we made plain during the passage of this legislation, there is a clear distinction between the private rented sector to which my hon. Friend referred, which we are determined to encourage, and those who live in the specific categories of houses and flats to which the legislation will apply. I accept my hon. Friend's point and give her the reassurance that she seeks.
§ Mr. Rhodri Morgan (Cardiff, West)I draw to the attention of the Secretary of State a situation affecting 19 of my constituents whose ground landlord is the Church in Wales, and whose houses have been made unsaleable by the Church's demands and its attempt to enfranchise them 1030 at a cost of £17,000 in respect of houses valued at between £100,000 and £150,000. The leases are due to revert in 2003. According to the Church's advisers, that means that £17,000 must be paid for a lease. Leaseholders cannot sell a house on that basis; nor can they enfranchise themselves, because who has £17,000 to spend? Two years ago, £1,400 was being asked; what are people to do now that the price has shot up to £17,000?
§ Mr. HowardI am astonished at the hon. Gentleman's question. He should be well aware that, ultimately, such matters are decided by leasehold tribunals. If his constituents ae not satisfied with the terms offered by their freeholder, they should take the case to a tribunal.
§ Mr. David Winnick (Walsall, North)Will the Secretary of State give way?
§ Mr. HowardNo, I must make progress.
I was dealing with the points made by my right hon. and hon. Friends. I think that I had already mentioned their anxieties about the terms on which enfranchisement will take place. Their chief fear was that leaseholders might somehow acquire their homes at a discount. I entirely accept that that would be wrong, and I assure my right hon. and hon. Friends that it will not happen.
The marriage value—which is the element of compensation at issue—is the extra value released when the freehold and leasehold interests are brought together in a single pair of hands. In the absence of enfranchisement, there is no marriage value, so the freeholder will have lost nothing if the leaseholders retain an element of that value when enfranchisement goes ahead. There is no discount; there is merely a sharing of the extra value. The precise share for each party will depend on the circumstances in each case. Often 50:50 will be appropriate, but in some cases the landlord should get more. For example, if the lease has very little of its term left to run, the landlord should probably get nearly all the marriage value.
The Bill allows for that. It will replicate the open market. In the case of flats, we have added the safeguard that the landlord must always receive at least half the marriage value, but if he can convince the leasehold valuation tribunal that in the market he would receive more, the tribunal must give him more.
The Bill addresses important problems, and it does so by proceeding with clear manifesto commitments. I know that Conservative Members who have some misgivings about the leasehold reform provisions have weighed that point carefully. Opposition Members, however, are in a state of total confusion. Do they oppose leasehold reform? Do they oppose a vigorous drive to develop derelict land, led by a new agency working with local authorities and the private sector? Do they oppose giving council tenants the right to turn their rents into mortgages?
We have been told by the hon. Member for Leeds, West that compulsory competitive tendering for housing management is unacceptable—a view echoed by the hon. Member for Hammersmith (Mr. Soley). Last night, as a result of mighty effort, the hon. Member for Leeds, West managed to persuade 55 of his hon. Friends to vote with him on a wrecking amendment. It was, however, extremely inconsiderate of the hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr. Straw), who is Labour's full-time spokesman on the monarchy, not to tip off his hon. Friend before giving his recent interview to Tribune. He must know that Tribune is 1031 not just any old magazine but the approved vehicle for sneaking out major policy U-turns—in this instance, on compulsory competitive tendering.
The hon. Member for Blackburn is in favour of compulsory competitive tendering—or so he told us in the pages of Tribune—while the hon. Member for Leeds, West is against it. In which direction are his hon. Friends to turn? Are they to follow the hon. Member for Blackburn, or the hon. Member for Leeds, West? Should they come, or should they go? Should they vote yes, or should they vote no? We await their decision with interest.
I cannot conclude without referring to the distinguished contribution made by Liberal Democrats to the debate on housing. After attending five Standing Committee sittings, their housing spokesman, the hon. Member for Cheltenham (Mr. Jones), told the magazine Inside Housing, that the Committee was "a bag of worms", and that he had no intention of returning to it. Of course, we could not expect the hon. Gentleman to be present this evening. True to his word, the hon. Gentleman missed the next 20 sittings. Hon. Members can imagine the intense expectation when he arrived in the Chamber yesterday. The House hung on his every word—or it would have done if he had said anything; lapsing into Trappist mode, he sat through the debate but remained silent throughout. It would be impossible to identify a more eloquent comment on his party's ability to contribute a single thought to our deliberations on these important matters.
The Bill will play an important part in regenerating our cities. It will give council tenants the opportunity to buy a stake in the homes in which they live; it will allow hundreds of thousands of private leaseholders the opportunity to gain control over the management of their homes; and it will bring about a much-needed improvement in the management of public housing by introducing the spur of competition. All those important reforms are contained in the Bill, and I commend it to the House.
§ Mr. Jack Straw (Blackburn)I apologise to you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and to the House, for my inability to be present for speeches about important amendments and new clauses.
I went to Nottingham this morning. I caught a train that was due to arrive at St. Pancras at 3.15; it arrived at 5.50 pm. [Hon. MEMBERS: "Privatise."] I had anticipated that ritual chant from Conservative Members. In fact, the delay was caused by the under-investment with which we have charged the Government, and by the semi-privatisation that they have already carried out. Following a total train failure caused by clapped-out equipment, the passengers were forced to suffer the indignity of knowing that, just up the line, locomotives were ready to take the train back to Wellingborough station. Because of the so-called business railway, however, none was available, so we sat there for two and a half hours.
Yesterday, the hon. Member for Weston-super-Mare (Sir J. Wiggin) said:
It is a matter of considerable regret to me that the Bill is modelled on a Labour precedent, the Leasehold Reform Act 1967 … A number of us find it difficult to accept that a Conservative Government are retabling a socialist measure which has been described by Professor Wade QC"—an acknowledged administrative lawyer—as a form of 'expropriation'which 1032can scarcely be said to have been for public purposes".—[Official Report, 9 February 1993; Vol. 218, c. 834–35.]The hon. Gentleman has been wrong in the past, and I am afraid that he was wrong yesterday. Would that this were the measure that we would have tabled if we had won the general election in April—a measure that would have given almost all flat leaseholders the right to enfranchise. We would have ensured that the test on non-residential floor space was raised, and, in particular, we would have rescinded the low rent test.Yesterday, a Labour amendment and new clause were moved which would have led to the abandonment of the low rent test. That followed debate in Committee. Although, like the Secretary of State, I was not a member of the Committee, my hon. Friends were led to believe that the Minister for Housing and Planning understood the powerful arguments against the iniquity of the test—arguments for a view shared by a number of Conservative Members.
It is my belief that the Minister of State—once one of the great left-wingers of the Conservative party, who, I realise, cannot answer for—this understands and agrees with the case we make but that he was overruled by others, no doubt including the Secretary of State, under pressure from the Duke of Westminster tendency of the Conservative party. We should like to know what were and are the arguments against our amendment on the low rent test. Certainly they were not advanced in debate last night, nor were they put forward in Committee. There is no case for a low rent test—particularly the one in this Bill, which enables unscrupulous landlords so to set their ground rents as to escape the Bill's provisions and deny tenants the right to enfranchise.
Last night, the Minister for Housing and Planning asked me what our attitude on Third Reading would be. I told him that if he were to accept the argument for the amendment and the new clause in respect of the low rent test, we should support the Third Reading. That remains our position. But, in the event, we shall not be supporting the Third Reading. Our position in this regard is entirely consistent, not least because the Government have refused to give full rights of enfranchisement to all holders of long leases.
§ Mr. HowardI should like to ensure that I have understood the hon. Gentleman's position. Will he confirm that, because not quite all the people whom he would like to see given the right to enfranchisement will achieve that right under the Bill, he wants the right to be given to no one?
§ Mr. StrawThat is a ludicrous parody. There are other reasons for our opposition. We need means of expressing our very serious opposition, on behalf of disfranchised leaseholders, to the provisions of the Bill. We can do so by voting against the Third Reading, as we voted against the Second Reading in the hope that changes would be made in Committee.
I should like to turn to the extraordinary position that the Government have got themselves into in respect of compulsory competitive tendering for housing management. The Secretary of State referred to my Tribune interview. The entire interview was tape-recorded by the editor. The direct quotations of my words are correct. The statement—in reported form—that compulsory competitive tendering and the council tax would be retained is erroneous. I did not say that, nor would I, as how and 1033 when policy is settled are matters for the Labour party as a whole. Those are not things for me to proclaim in an interview for Tribune. An apology from the editor will appear in this week's issue of the paper. In the interview I also made it clear that we are opposed to compulsory competitive tendering for housing management.
§ Mr. HowardWhy has it taken the hon. Gentleman a week to decide whether the Tribune report was correct?
§ Mr. StrawWhat I have just said to the House was said to journalists last Friday, when the interview appeared.
§ Mr. Eric Pickles (Brentwood and Ongar)Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
§ Mr. StrawNo. We are due to vote very soon.
The Secretary of State made much of the apparent management rights that he is ready to give tenants. He described as ineffective a veto giving tenants the right to decide who should manage their estates, despite the fact that such a veto was written into the 1985 Act by many of his hon. Friends, albeit with our support. What emerged, particularly in the answer that the right hon. and learned Gentleman gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Hammersmith (Mr. Soley), was that his real concern was that the veto, far from being ineffective, would be all too effective. It will give tenants the right to decide, before the matter goes to competitive tendering, who should be their managers.
It is not good enough for the Secretary of State to say, as he sought a moment ago to say, that the tender price will determine who should manage an estate. The tenants want an absolute right to decide before the matter goes to tender. We are not arguing that the council should have that right; we are arguing that the tenants should have it.
On the question of urban regeneration, our concern is that there should be a much wider base and a much more democratic agency, as we proposed in new clause 14. It is a matter for great regret that the Government rejected that proposal. The need for regeneration of urban areas is overwhelming, and the Government's half-baked policies are not good enough. After all, they virtually wound up the urban programme, and the Secretary of State is currently shuffling to abandon the third phase of city challenge. On this matter, I should be very happy to take an intervention from him. Yesterday, in reply to a question from me, he talked about a possible third phase. We should all be pleased to hear a categorical assurance that there will be a similarly sized third phase of city challenge.
§ Mr. HowardWe have more than once made it clear that we have not abandoned city challenge and that we shall take a decision about a third round at the appropriate time.
As the hon. Gentleman invited me to intervene. I should like to press him a little further about what he said a few moments ago concerning his attitude to compulsory competitive tendering and to the council tax. He said that all his words reported in quotation marks by Tribune were accurate. Well, what he said—reported in quotation marks —about compulsory competitive tendering was that he had seen the case for it in respect of the provision of basic services such as refuse collection. What he said—reported in quotation marks—about the council tax was that he could see that the underlying principle was okay.
§ Madam Deputy SpeakerOrder. Interventions, even from Secretaries of State, should be short.
§ Mr. StrawThe Secretary of State failed to read beyond the remark that the underlying principle was okay. The property tax U-turn was not done by the Opposition. We have argued for years for a property tax. On the other hand, the Secretary of State went round the country for five years evangelising on the merits of the poll tax. He it was who said that the poll tax was the fairest and most equal of all taxes and who, in speech after speech, damned the idea of a property tax based on capital values. I am delighted that he has at last been converted to the idea of a property tax. What I want to know is whether he believed it then and whether he believes it now. Is his conversion a genuinely Pauline one?
The Secretary of State spoke of manifesto pledges made by the Government just 10 months ago. He did not say that, since April 1992, 450,000 building workers have gone on the dole, that 150,000 people are in long-term mortgage arrears and face the ever-growing threat of repossession, that 65,000 homeless families are in temporary accommodation, that we still have the scandalous spectacle of people sleeping rough on the streets, and that house building in the private and public sectors is at the lowest level for a decade.
We shall vote against the Bill because it takes away tenants' rights, because it does not provide an effective programme for urban regeneration, because it fails fully to enfranchise leaseholders and, above all, because it fails to do anything about the underlying housing crisis, of which the Government are the architect.
§ Mr. JoplingIf the Secretary of State and the hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr. Straw) can each take 10 minutes on Third Reading, I do not see why time should not be available to Back Benchers.
I do not think that I can remember a Bill being introduced by my party that made me feel more ashamed. This is a poor Bill. I have opposed it throughout, and although my right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State has made some welcome adjustments to its provisions on leasehold reform, I am very disappointed that he has not been able to go further.
I cannot accept that a landlord should be made to sell a property to a leaseholder against his will. The Bill does not fairly compensate him for when a leaseholder exercises his option of enfranchisement. Unless the Secretary of State can give clearer guidance to the valuation tribunals, it is likely that they will gravitate towards the 50:50 split of the marriage value, using the flawed argument that my right hon. and learned Friend has advanced about a willing buyer and willing seller. That will not achieve fairness. The willing seller and willing buyer basis is flawed when a transaction is a forced one between two private citizens.
I hope that before the Bill is enacted the Secretary of State will be able to improve those terms and that the resulting average price that is paid will ultimately be nearer 100 per cent. of the marriage value. I have been given an example of a flat with a freehold vacant possession value 1035 of £750,000. If a landlord sells a long lease of 70 years at, say, a value of £630,000 and at a rent of £500 a year, he will forgo £120,000 of that value. I have been advised, using the criterion that the tribunals use, that after the first year of the lease the loss to the freeholder would be just under £56,000 and that the overnight windfall gain to the leaseholder would be the same. I do not see that that is a fair and proper basis on which to proceed, which is why I am astonished that the party to which I belong has introduced such legislation.
I was in the House when the 1967 Bill was enacted. I know very well that if the Labour party had introduced legislation such as this Bill, there would have been fury and furore from this party and it would have been opposed root and branch. For that reason, if the Government want the Bill, they will have to get it without my assistance.
§ Mr. Simon HughesI shall be as brief as the right. hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Mr. Jopling), but I shall not take the same view. I hope that the Secretary of State, having complained yesterday about the Trappist tendencies of my colleagues, will not complain if I now say something: he cannot have it both ways.
The most controversial aspect of the Bill relates to the point that was made by the right hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale. The attitude that he and other Conservative Members take, though understandable in logic, is less understandable in politics, as they did not take a similar view of tenants' rights when we were debating the right to buy from local authorities. Local authorities suffered as much as private landlords might if the Bill is enacted.
The inconsistency is remarkable—not that consistency would be a prize awarded to either Front Bench, for reasons that are evident after tonight's speeches. The Secretary of State knows the position that my colleagues and I adopted, so the advice that I shall soon give my colleagues is predictable. On Second Reading, we supported the Government, making it clear that we supported some parts of the Bill.
We support the proposals for enfranchisement, although we regret that the Government did not amend them to get rid of the low-rent test. We support attention being given to urban regeneration, but we do not like the mechanism adopted because of its undemocratic nature. We support the idea of more tenants' management but oppose the lack of tenants' having the final say over compulsory competitive tendering. We do not believe that that compulsion should be at the behest of the Government; it should be the decision of those affected.
One must therefore make a choice between passing a Bill with many provisions that one does not like or blocking it in the hope that the Government will improve it when it returns. The choice for us is clear: we will seek to block the Bill by opposing Third Reading. We hope that, if it is defeated, the Government will learn the lessons of the arguments put in the House and outside and will become much more accountable and democratic, not only in their housing policy, but in their policy for urban regeneration.
§ Sir Jerry Wiggin (Weston-super-Mare)If it had been put to me at an election meeting that, within months of that election, the party that I support would introduce a Bill that legislated between two private individuals who had had a perfectly good and legitimate contract to force one against his will to sell to another, and then not at a fair price, I would—and I can speak for my hon. Friends on this—have hotly denied it. Yet that is what the Bill does in various ways.
We discussed yesterday in great detail the subjects of compensation and residence. Is it right that the Bill should apply to foreigners, companies and people who are well able to look after themselves? Is it right that legislation should break up the heritage estates of our great capital city?
My right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State is deluding himself if he believes that the principle of the Bill will not affect the minds of investors who are seeking to erect or create property to let. They will say that the Conservative Government, in spite of what they claim, are unreliable and will enfranchise tenants. That is a terrible mistake. The decline of the rented sector has been one of the worst problems in the housing market and is very much the fault of the Opposition, whose belief in security of tenure has taken out of the market the capacity for the less well paid to have a decent home.
I support what our manifesto said, but the Bill is the wrong way to achieve it. I shall certainly not support it.
§ Question put, That the Bill be now read the Third time:—
§ The House divided: Ayes 297, Noes 262.
1020| Division No. 148] | [6.2 pm |
| AYES | |
| Abbott, Ms Diane | Bermingham, Gerald |
| Adams, Mrs Irene | Berry, Dr. Roger |
| Ainger, Nick | Betts, Clive |
| Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE) | Blair, Tony |
| Allen, Graham | Blunkett, David |
| Alton, David | Boyce, Jimmy |
| Anderson, Ms Janet (Ros'dale) | Boyes, Roland |
| Ashdown, Rt Hon Paddy | Bradley, Keith |
| Austin-Walker, John | Bray, Dr Jeremy |
| Banks, Tony (Newham NW) | Brown, Gordon (Dunfermline E) |
| Barnes, Harry | Brown, N. (N'c'tle upon Tyne E) |
| Barron, Kevin | Bruce, Malcolm (Gordon) |
| Battle, John | Burden, Richard |
| Bayley, Hugh | Byers, Stephen |
| Beckett, Margaret | Caborn, Richard |
| Beith, Rt Hon A. J. | Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge) |
| Bell, Stuart | Campbell, Menzies (Fife NE) |
| Benn, Rt Hon Tony | Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V) |
| Bennett, Andrew F. | Campbell-Savours, D. N. |
| Benton, Joe | Cann, Jamie |
| Carlile, Alexander (Montgomry) | Hoon, Geoffrey |
| Chisholm, Malcolm | Howarth, George (Knowsley N) |
| Clapham, Michael | Howells, Dr. Kim (Pontypridd) |
| Clark, Dr David (South Shields) | Hoyle, Doug |
| Clarke, Eric (Midlothian) | Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N) |
| Clarke, Tom (Monklands W) | Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen N) |
| Clelland, David | Hughes, Roy (Newport E) |
| Clwyd, Mrs Ann | Hughes, Simon (Southwark) |
| Coffey, Ann | Hutton, John |
| Cohen, Harry | Illsley, Eric |
| Connarty, Michael | Ingram, Adam |
| Cook, Robin (Livingston) | Jackson, Glenda (H'stead) |
| Corbett, Robin | Jackson, Helen (Shef'ld, H) |
| Corbyn, Jeremy | Jamieson, David |
| Corston, Ms Jean | Johnston, Sir Russell |
| Cousins, Jim | Jones, Barry (Alyn and D'side) |
| Cox, Tom | Jones, Ieuan Wyn (Ynys Môn) |
| Cryer, Bob | Jones, Jon Owen (Cardiff C) |
| Cummings, John | Jones, Lynne (B'ham S O) |
| Cunliffe, Lawrence | Jones, Martyn (Clwyd, SW) |
| Cunningham, Jim (Covy SE) | Jowell, Tessa |
| Cunningham, Dr John (C'p'l'nd) | Keen, Alan |
| Dafis, Cynog | Kennedy, Charles (Ross,C&S) |
| Dalyell, Tam | Khabra, Piara S. |
| Darling, Alistair | Kilfoyle, Peter |
| Davidson, Ian | Kirkwood, Archy |
| Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli) | Leighton, Ron |
| Davies, Ron (Caerphilly) | Lestor, Joan (Eccles) |
| Davis, Terry (B'ham, H'dge H'l) | Lewis, Terry |
| Denham, John | Litherland, Robert |
| Dixon, Don | Livingstone, Ken |
| Dobson, Frank | Lloyd, Tony (Stretford) |
| Donohoe, Brian H. | Llwyd, Elfyn |
| Dowd, Jim | Loyden, Eddie |
| Dunnachie, Jimmy | Lynne, Ms Liz |
| Dunwoody, Mrs Gwyneth | McAllion, John |
| Eagle, Ms Angela | McAvoy, Thomas |
| Eastham, Ken | McCartney, Ian |
| Enright, Derek | Macdonald, Calum |
| Etherington, Bill | McFall, John |
| Evans, John (St Helens N) | McKelvey, William |
| Ewing, Mrs Margaret | Mackinlay, Andrew |
| Fatchett, Derek | McLeish, Henry |
| Faulds, Andrew | Maclennan, Robert |
| Field, Frank (Birkenhead) | McNamara, Kevin |
| Fisher, Mark | Madden, Max |
| Flynn, Paul | Mahon, Alice |
| Foster, Derek (B' p Auckland) | Mandelson, Peter |
| Foster, Don (Bath) | Marek, Dr John |
| Foulkes, George | Marshall, David (Shettleston) |
| Fraser, John | Marshall, Jim (Leicester, S) |
| Gapes, Mike | Martin, Michael J. (Springburn) |
| Garrett, John | Martlew, Eric |
| George, Bruce | Meacher, Michael |
| Gerrard, Neil | Meale, Alan |
| Gilbert, Rt Hon Dr John | Michael, Alun |
| Godman, Dr Norman A. | Michie, Bill (Sheffield Heeley) |
| Godsiff, Roger | Michie, Mrs Ray (Argyll Bute) |
| Golding, Mrs Llin | Milburn, Alan |
| Gordon, Mildred | Miller, Andrew |
| Gould, Bryan | Mitchell, Austin (Gt Grimsby) |
| Graham, Thomas | Moonie, Dr Lewis |
| Grant, Bernie (Tottenham) | Morgan, Rhodri |
| Griffiths, Win (Bridgend) | Morley, Elliot |
| Grocott, Bruce | Morris, Rt Hon A. (Wy'nshawe) |
| Gunnell, John | Mowlam, Marjorie |
| Hain, Peter | Mudie, George |
| Hall, Mike | Mullin, Chris |
| Hanson, David | Murphy, Paul |
| Hardy, Peter | Oakes, Rt Hon Gordon |
| Harman, Ms Harriet | O'Brien, Michael (N W'kshire) |
| Harvey, Nick | O'Brien, William (Normanton) |
| Hattersley, Rt Hon Roy | O'Hara, Edward |
| Henderson, Doug | Olner, William |
| Heppell, John | Orme, Rt Hon Stanley |
| Hill, Keith (Streatham) | Parry, Robert |
| Hinchliffe, David | Patchett, Terry |
| Hoey, Kate | Pendry, Tom |
| Home Robertson, John | Pickthall, Colin |
| Hood, Jimmy | Pike, Peter L. |
| Pope, Greg | Spearing, Nigel |
| Powell, Ray (Ogmore) | Squire, Rachel (Dunfermline W) |
| Prentice, Ms Bridget (Lew'm E) | Steinberg, Gerry |
| Prentice, Gordon (Pendle) | Stevenson, George |
| Prescott, John | Stott, Roger |
| Primarolo, Dawn | Strang, Dr. Gavin |
| Quin, Ms Joyce | Taylor, Mrs Ann (Dewsbury) |
| Radice, Giles | Thompson, Jack (Wansbeck) |
| Raynsford, Nick | Tipping, Paddy |
| Redmond, Martin | Turner, Dennis |
| Reid, Dr John | Tyler, Paul |
| Robertson, George (Hamilton) | Vaz, Keith |
| Robinson, Geoffrey (Co'fry NW) | Walker, Rt Hon Sir Harold |
| Roche, Mrs. Barbara | Walley, Joan |
| Rogers, Allan | Wardell, Gareth (Gower) |
| Rooker, Jeff | Watson, Mike |
| Rooney, Terry | Welsh, Andrew |
| Ross, Ernie (Dundee W) | Wicks, Malcolm |
| Ruddock, Joan | Wigley, Dafydd |
| Salmond, Alex | Williams, Rt Hon Alan (Sw'n W) |
| Sedgemore, Brian | Williams, Alan W (Carmarthen) |
| Sheerman, Barry | Wilson, Brian |
| Sheldon, Rt Hon Robert | Winnick, David |
| Shore, Rt Hon Peter | Wise, Audrey |
| Simpson, Alan | Wray, Jimmy |
| Skinner, Dennis | Wright, Dr Tony |
| Smith, Andrew (Oxford E) | Young, David (Bolton SE) |
| Smith, C. (Isl'ton S & F'sbury) | |
| Smith, Rt Hon John (M'kl'ds E) | Tellers for the Ayes: |
| Smith, Llew (Blaenau Gwent) | Mr. John Spellar and |
| Snape, Peter | Mr. Gordon McMaster. |
| Soley, Clive | |
| NOES | |
| Adley, Robert | Carttiss, Michael |
| Ainsworth, Peter (East Surrey) | Cash, William |
| Alexander, Richard | Channon, Rt Hon Paul |
| Alison, Rt Hon Michael (Selby) | Chaplin, Mrs Judith |
| Allason, Rupert (Torbay) | Chapman, Sydney |
| Amess, David | Churchill, Mr |
| Ancram, Michael | Clappison, James |
| Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham) | Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford) |
| Arnold, Sir Thomas (Hazel Grv) | Clarke, Rt Hon Kenneth (Ruclif) |
| Ashby, David | Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey |
| Aspinwall, Jack | Coe, Sebastian |
| Atkinson, David (Bour'mouth E) | Colvin, Michael |
| Atkinson, Peter (Hexham) | Congdon, David |
| Baker, Rt Hon K. (Mole Valley) | Conway, Derek |
| Baker, Nicholas (Dorset North) | Coombs, Anthony (Wyre For'st) |
| Baldry, Tony | Coombs, Simon (Swindon) |
| Banks, Matthew (Southport) | Cope, Rt Hon Sir John |
| Banks, Robert (Harrogate) | Couchman, James |
| Bates, Michael | Cran, James |
| Batiste, Spencer | Currie, Mrs Edwina (S D'by'ire) |
| Bellingham, Henry | Curry, David (Skipton & Ripon) |
| Beresford, Sir Paul | Davies, Quentin (Stamford) |
| Biffen, Rt Hon John | Davis, David (Boothferry) |
| Bonsor, Sir Nicholas | Day, Stephen |
| Booth, Hartley | Deva, Nirj Joseph |
| Boswell, Tim | Devlin, Tim |
| Bottomley, Peter (Eltham) | Dickens, Geoffrey |
| Bottomley, Rt Hon Virginia | Dicks, Terry |
| Bowden, Andrew | Dorrell, Stephen |
| Bowis, John | Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James |
| Boyson, Rt Hon Sir Rhodes | Dover, Den |
| Brandreth, Gyles | Duncan, Alan |
| Brazier, Julian | Duncan-Smith, Iain |
| Bright, Graham | Dunn, Bob |
| Brooke, Rt Hon Peter | Durant, Sir Anthony |
| Brown, M. (Brigg & Cl'thorpes) | Dykes, Hugh |
| Browning, Mrs. Angela | Eggar, Tim |
| Bruce, Ian (S Dorset) | Elletson, Harold |
| Burns, Simon | Emery, Rt Hon Sir Peter |
| Burt, Alistair | Evans, David (Welwyn Hatfield) |
| Butcher, John | Evans, Jonathan (Brecon) |
| Butler, Peter | Evans, Nigel (Ribble Valley) |
| Butterfill, John | Evans, Roger (Monmouth) |
| Carlisle, John (Luton North) | Evennett, David |
| Carlisle, Kenneth (Lincoln) | Faber, David |
| Carrington, Matthew | Fabricant, Michael |
| Fairbairn, Sir Nicholas | Lightbown, David |
| Fenner, Dame Peggy | Lilley, Rt Hon Peter |
| Field, Barry (Isle of Wight) | Lloyd, Peter (Fareham) |
| Fishburn, Dudley | Lord, Michael |
| Forman, Nigel | Luff, Peter |
| Forsyth, Michael (Stirling) | Lyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas |
| Forth, Eric | MacGregor, Rt Hon John |
| Fowler, Rt Hon Sir Norman | MacKay, Andrew |
| Fox, Dr Liam (Woodspring) | Maclean, David |
| Fox, Sir Marcus (Shipley) | McLoughlin, Patrick |
| Freeman, Roger | McNair-Wilson, Sir Patrick |
| French, Douglas | Madel, David |
| Fry, Peter | Maitland, Lady Olga |
| Gale, Roger | Malone, Gerald |
| Gallie, Phil | Mans, Keith |
| Gardiner, Sir George | Marland, Paul |
| Garel-Jones, Rt Hon Tristan | Marlow, Tony |
| Garnier, Edward | Marshall, John (Hendon S) |
| Gill, Christopher | Martin, David (Portsmouth S) |
| Gillan, Cheryl | Mawhinney, Dr Brian |
| Goodlad, Rt Hon Alastair | Mayhew, Rt Hon Sir Patrick |
| Goodson-Wickes, Dr Charles | Mellor, Rt Hon David |
| Gorman, Mrs Teresa | Merchant, Piers |
| Grant, Sir Anthony (Cambs SW) | Milligan, Stephen |
| Greenway, Harry (Ealing N) | Mills, Iain |
| Greenway, John (Ryedale) | Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling) |
| Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth, N) | Mitchell, Sir David (Hants NW) |
| Grylls, Sir Michael | Moate, Sir Roger |
| Hague, William | Molyneaux, Rt Hon James |
| Hamilton, Rt Hon Archie (Epsom) | Monro, Sir Hector |
| Hamilton, Neil (Tatton) | Montgomery, Sir Fergus |
| Hanley, Jeremy | Moss, Malcolm |
| Hannam, Sir John | Needham, Richard |
| Hargreaves, Andrew | Nelson, Anthony |
| Hawkins, Nick | Neubert, Sir Michael |
| Hawksley, Warren | Newton, Rt Hon Tony |
| Hayes, Jerry | Nicholls, Patrick |
| Heald, Oliver | Nicholson, David (Taunton) |
| Heath, Rt Hon Sir Edward | Nicholson, Emma (Devon West) |
| Heathcoat-Amory, David | Norris, Steve |
| Hendry, Charles | Onslow, Rt Hon Sir Cranley |
| Heseltine, Rt Hon Michael | Oppenheim, Phillip |
| Hicks, Robert | Ottaway, Richard |
| Higgins, Rt Hon Sir Terence L. | Page, Richard |
| Hill, James (Southampton Test) | Paice, James |
| Hogg, Rt Hon Douglas (G'tham) | Patnick, Irvine |
| Horam, John | Patten, Rt Hon John |
| Hordern, Rt Hon Sir Peter | Pattie, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey |
| Howard, Rt Hon Michael | Pawsey, James |
| Hughes Robert G. (Harrow W) | Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth |
| Hunt, Rt Hon David (Wirral W) | Pickles, Eric |
| Hunt, Sir John (Ravensbourne) | Porter, Barry (Wirral S) |
| Hunter, Andrew | Porter, David (Waveney) |
| Hurd, Rt Hon Douglas | Portillo, Rt Hon Michael |
| Jack, Michael | Powell, William (Corby) |
| Jackson, Robert (Wantage) | Rathbone, Tim |
| Jenkin, Bernard | Redwood, John |
| Johnson Smith, Sir Geoffrey | Renton, Rt Hon Tim |
| Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N) | Richards, Rod |
| Jones, Robert B. (W Hertfdshr) | Riddick, Graham |
| Jopling, Rt Hon Michael | Rifkind, Rt Hon. Malcolm |
| Kellett-Bowman, Dame Elaine | Robathan, Andrew |
| Key, Robert | Roberts, Rt Hon Sir Wyn |
| Kilfedder, Sir James | Robertson, Raymond (Ab'd'n S) |
| King, Rt Hon Tom | Robinson, Mark (Somerton) |
| Knapman, Roger | Roe, Mrs Marion (Broxbourne) |
| Knight, Mrs Angela (Erewash) | Rowe, Andrew (Mid Kent) |
| Knight, Greg (Derby N) | Ryder, Rt Hon Richard |
| Knight, Dame Jill (Bir'm E'st'n) | Sackville, Tom |
| Knox, David | Sainsbury, Rt Hon Tim |
| Kynoch, George (Kincardine) | Scott, Rt Hon Nicholas |
| Lait, Mrs Jacqui | Shaw, David (Dover) |
| Lamont, Rt Hon Norman | Shaw, Sir Giles (Pudsey) |
| Lang, Rt Hon Ian | Shephard, Rt Hon Gillian |
| Lawrence, Sir Ivan | Shepherd, Colin (Hereford) |
| Legg, Barry | Shersby, Michael |
| Leigh, Edward | Sims, Roger |
| Lennox-Boyd, Mark | Skeet, Sir Trevor |
| Lester, Jim (Broxtowe) | Smith, Sir Dudley (Warwick) |
| Lidington, David | Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield) |
| Smyth, Rev Martin (Belfast S) | Trotter, Neville |
| Speed, Sir Keith | Twinn, Dr Ian |
| Spencer, Sir Derek | Vaughan, Sir Gerard |
| Spicer, Sir James (W Dorset) | Viggers, Peter |
| Spicer, Michael (S Worcs) | Waldegrave, Rt Hon William |
| Spink, Dr Robert | Walden, George |
| Spring, Richard | Walker, Bill (N Tayside) |
| Sproat, Iain | Waller, Gary |
| Squire, Robin (Hornchurch) | Ward, John |
| Steen, Anthony | Wardle, Charles (Bexhill) |
| Stephen, Michael | Waterson, Nigel |
| Stern, Michael | Watts, John |
| Stewart, Allan | Wells, Bowen |
| Streeter, Gary | Wheeler, Rt Hon Sir John |
| Sumberg, David | Whitney, Ray |
| Sweeney, Walter | Whittingdale, John |
| Tapsell, Sir Peter | Widdecombe, Ann |
| Taylor, Ian (Esher) | Wiggin, Sir Jerry |
| Taylor, John M. (Solihull) | Willetts, David |
| Taylor, Sir Teddy (Southend, E) | Wilshire, David |
| Temple-Morris, Peter | Winterton, Mrs Ann (Congleton) |
| Thompson, Sir Donald (C'er V) | Wolfson, Mark |
| Thompson, Patrick (Norwich N) | Wood, Timothy |
| Thornton, Sir Malcolm | Yeo, Tim |
| Thurnham, Peter | Young, Sir George (Acton) |
| Townend, John (Bridlington) | |
| Townsend, Cyril D. (Bexl'yh'th) | Tellers for the Noes: |
| Tracey, Richard | Mr. Timothy Kirkhope and |
| Tredinnick, David | Mr. James Arbuthnot. |
| Trend, Michael |
| Division No. 149] | [7.20 pm |
| AYES | |
| Adley, Robert | Burns, Simon |
| Ainsworth, Peter (East Surrey) | Burt, Alistair |
| Aitken, Jonathan | Butcher, John |
| Alexander, Richard | Butler, Peter |
| Alison, Rt Hon Michael (Selby) | Butterfill, John |
| Allason, Rupert (Torbay) | Carlisle, John (Luton North) |
| Amess, David | Carlisle, Kenneth (Lincoln) |
| Ancram, Michael | Carrington, Matthew |
| Arbuthnot, James | Carttiss, Michael |
| Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham) | Cash, William |
| Arnold, Sir Thomas (Hazel Grv) | Channon, Rt Hon Paul |
| Ashby, David | Chaplin, Mrs Judith |
| Aspinwall, Jack | Churchill, Mr |
| Atkinson, David (Bour'mouth E) | Clappison, James |
| Atkinson, Peter (Hexham) | Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford) |
| Baker, Nicholas (Dorset North) | Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey |
| Baldry, Tony | Coe, Sebastian |
| Banks, Matthew (Southport) | Colvin, Michael |
| Banks, Robert (Harrogate) | Congdon, David |
| Bates, Michael | Conway, Derek |
| Batiste, Spencer | Coombs, Anthony (Wyre For'st) |
| Bellingham, Henry | Coombs, Simon (Swindon) |
| Beresford, Sir Paul | Cope, Rt Hon Sir John |
| Biffen, Rt Hon John | Couchman, James |
| Booth, Hartley | Cran, James |
| Boswell, Tim | Currie, Mrs Edwina (S D'by'ire) |
| Bottomley, Peter (Eltham) | Curry, David (Skipton & Ripon) |
| Bottomley, Rt Hon Virginia | Davies, Quentin (Stamford) |
| Bowden, Andrew | Davis, David (Boothferry) |
| Bowis, John | Day, Stephen |
| Boyson, Rt Hon Sir Rhodes | Deva, Nirj Joseph |
| Brandreth, Gyles | Devlin, Tim |
| Brazier, Julian | Dickens, Geoffrey |
| Bright, Graham | Dicks, Terry |
| Brooke, Rt Hon Peter | Dorrell, Stephen |
| Brown, M. (Brigg & Cl'thorpes) | Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James |
| Browning, Mrs. Angela | Dover, Den |
| Bruce, Ian (S Dorset) | Duncan, Alan |
| Duncan-Smith, Iain | Knight, Mrs Angela (Erewash) |
| Dunn, Bob | Knight, Greg (Derby N) |
| Durant, Sir Anthony | Knox, David |
| Dykes, Hugh | Kynoch, George (Kincardine) |
| Eggar, Tim | Lait, Mrs Jacqui |
| Elletson, Harold | Lamont, Rt Hon Norman |
| Emery, Rt Hon Sir Peter | Lang, Rt Hon Ian |
| Evans, David (Welwyn Hatfield) | Lawrence, Sir Ivan |
| Evans, Jonathan (Brecon) | Legg, Barry |
| Evans, Nigel (Ribble Valley) | Lennox-Boyd, Mark |
| Evans, Roger (Monmouth) | Lester, Jim (Broxtowe) |
| Evennett, David | Lidington, David |
| Faber, David | Lightbown, David |
| Fabricant, Michael | Lilley, Rt Hon Peter |
| Fairbairn, Sir Nicholas | Lloyd, Peter (Fareham) |
| Fenner, Dame Peggy | Lord, Michael |
| Field, Barry (Isle of Wight) | Luff, Peter |
| Fishburn, Dudley | Lyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas |
| Forman, Nigel | MacGregor, Rt Hon John |
| Forsyth, Michael (Stirling) | MacKay, Andrew |
| Forth, Eric | Maclean, David |
| Fowler, Rt Hon Sir Norman | McLoughlin, Patrick |
| Fox, Dr Liam (Woodspring) | McNair-Wilson, Sir Patrick |
| Fox, Sir Marcus (Shipley) | Madel, David |
| Freeman, Roger | Maitland, Lady Olga |
| French, Douglas | Malone, Gerald |
| Fry, Peter | Mans, Keith |
| Gale, Roger | Marlow, Tony |
| Gallie, Phil | Marshall, John (Hendon S) |
| Gardiner, Sir George | Martin, David (Portsmouth S) |
| Garel-Jones, Rt Hon Tristan | Mawhinney, Dr Brian |
| Garnier, Edward | Mayhew, Rt Hon Sir Patrick |
| Gill, Christopher | Mellor, Rt Hon David |
| Gillan, Cheryl | Merchant, Piers |
| Goodlad, Rt Hon Alastair | Milligan, Stephen |
| Goodson-Wickes, Dr Charles | Mills, Iain |
| Gorman, Mrs Teresa | Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling) |
| Grant, Sir Anthony (Cambs SW) | Mitchell, Sir David (Hants NW) |
| Greenway, Harry (Ealing N) | Moate, Sir Roger |
| Greenway, John (Ryedale) | Monro, Sir Hector |
| Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth, N) | Montgomery, Sir Fergus |
| Grylls, Sir Michael | Moss, Malcolm |
| Hague, William | Needham, Richard |
| Hamilton, Rt Hon Archie (Epsom) | Nelson, Anthony |
| Hamilton, Neil (Tatton) | Neubert, Sir Michael |
| Hampson, Dr Keith | Newton, Rt Hon Tony |
| Hanley, Jeremy | Nicholls, Patrick |
| Hannam, Sir John | Nicholson, David (Taunton) |
| Hargreaves, Andrew | Nicholson, Emma (Devon West) |
| Hawkins, Nick | Norris, Steve |
| Hawksley, Warren | Oppenheim, Phillip |
| Hayes, Jerry | Ottaway, Richard |
| Heald, Oliver | Page, Richard |
| Heath, Rt Hon Sir Edward | Paice, James |
| Heathcoat-Amory, David | Patnick, Irvine |
| Hendry, Charles | Patten, Rt Hon John |
| Heseltine, Rt Hon Michael | Pattie, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey |
| Hicks, Robert | Pawsey, James |
| Higgins, Rt Hon Sir Terence L. | Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth |
| Hill, James (Southampton Test) | Pickles, Eric |
| Hogg, Rt Hon Douglas (G'tham) | Porter, Barry (Wirral S) |
| Horam, John | Porter, David (Waveney) |
| Hordern, Rt Hon Sir Peter | Portillo, Rt Hon Michael |
| Howard, Rt Hon Michael | Rathbone, Tim |
| Hunt, Rt Hon David (Wirral W) | Redwood, John |
| Hunt, Sir John (Ravensbourne) | Renton, Rt Hon Tim |
| Hunter, Andrew | Richards, Rod |
| Hurd, Rt Hon Douglas | Riddick, Graham |
| Jack, Michael | Rifkind, Rt Hon. Malcolm |
| Jackson, Robert (Wantage) | Robathan, Andrew |
| Jenkin, Bernard | Roberts, Rt Hon Sir Wyn |
| Johnson Smith, Sir Geoffrey | Robertson, Raymond (Ab'd'n S) |
| Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N) | Robinson, Mark (Somerton) |
| Jones, Robert B. (W Hertfdshr) | Roe, Mrs Marion (Broxbourne) |
| Kellett-Bowman, Dame Elaine | Rowe, Andrew (Mid Kent) |
| Key, Robert | Rumbold, Rt Hon Dame Angela |
| Kilfedder, Sir James | Ryder, Rt Hon Richard |
| King, Rt Hon Tom | Sackville, Tom |
| Kirkhope, Timothy | Sainsbury, Rt Hon Tim |
| Knapman, Roger | Scott, Rt Hon Nicholas |
| Shaw, David (Dover) | Thurnham, Peter |
| Shaw, Sir Giles (Pudsey) | Townend, John (Bridlington) |
| Shephard, Rt Hon Gillian | Townsend, Cyril D. (Bexl'yh'th) |
| Shepherd, Colin (Hereford) | Tracey, Richard |
| Shersby, Michael | Trend, Michael |
| Sims, Roger | Trotter, Neville |
| Skeet, Sir Trevor | Twinn, Dr Ian |
| Smith, Sir Dudley (Warwick) | Vaughan, Sir Gerard |
| Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield) | Viggers, Peter |
| Speed, Sir Keith | Waldegrave, Rt Hon William |
| Spencer, Sir Derek | Walden, George |
| Spicer, Sir James (W Dorset) | Walker, Bill (N Tayside) |
| Spicer, Michael (S Worcs) | Waller, Gary |
| Spink, Dr Robert | Ward, John |
| Spring, Richard | Wardle, Charles (Bexhill) |
| Sproat, Iain | Waterson, Nigel |
| Squire, Robin (Hornchurch) | Watts, John |
| Steen, Anthony | Wells, Bowen |
| Stephen, Michael | Wheeler, Rt Hon Sir John |
| Stern, Michael | Whitney, Ray |
| Stewart, Allan | Whittingdale, John |
| Streeter, Gary | Widdecombe, Ann |
| Sumberg, David | Willetts, David |
| Sweeney, Walter | Wilshire, David |
| Sykes, John | Wolfson, Mark |
| Tapsell, Sir Peter | Wood, Timothy |
| Taylor, Ian (Esher) | Yeo, Tim |
| Taylor, John M. (Solihull) | Young, Sir George (Acton) |
| Taylor, Sir Teddy (Southend, E) | |
| Temple-Morris, Peter | Tellers for the Ayes: |
| Thompson, Sir Donald (C'er V) | Mr. Sydney Chapman and |
| Thompson, Patrick (Norwich N) | Mr. Robert G. Hughes |
| Thornton, Sir Malcolm | |
| NOES | |
| Abbott, Ms Diane | Clwyd, Mrs Ann |
| Adams, Mrs Irene | Coffey, Ann |
| Ainger, Nick | Cohen, Harry |
| Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE) | Connarty, Michael |
| Allen, Graham | Cook, Robin (Livingston) |
| Anderson, Ms Janet (Ros'dale) | Corbett, Robin |
| Armstrong, Hilary | Corbyn, Jeremy |
| Austin-Walker, John | Corston, Ms Jean |
| Banks, Tony (Newham NW) | Cousins, Jim |
| Barnes, Harry | Cox, Tom |
| Barron, Kevin | Cryer, Bob |
| Battle, John | Cummings, John |
| Bayley, Hugh | Cunliffe, Lawrence |
| Beckett, Margaret | Cunningham, Jim (Covy SE) |
| Beith, Rt Hon A. J. | Dafis, Cynog |
| Bell, Stuart | Dalyell, Tam |
| Benn, Rt Hon Tony | Darling, Alistair |
| Bennett, Andrew F. | Davidson, Ian |
| Benton, Joe | Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli) |
| Bermingham, Gerald | Davies, Ron (Caerphilly) |
| Berry, Dr. Roger | Davis, Terry (B'ham, H'dge H'l) |
| Betts, Clive | Denham, John |
| Blair, Tony | Dewar, Donald |
| Blunkett, David | Dixon, Don |
| Boyce, Jimmy | Dobson, Frank |
| Boyes, Roland | Donohoe, Brian H. |
| Bradley, Keith | Dowd, Jim |
| Bray, Dr Jeremy | Dunnachie, Jimmy |
| Brown, Gordon (Dunfermline E) | Dunwoody, Mrs Gwyneth |
| Brown, N. (N'c'tle upon Tyne E) | Eagle, Ms Angela |
| Bruce, Malcolm (Gordon) | Eastham, Ken |
| Burden, Richard | Enright, Derek |
| Byers, Stephen | Etherington, Bill |
| Caborn, Richard | Evans, John (St Helens N) |
| Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge) | Ewing, Mrs Margaret |
| Campbell, Menzies (Fife NE) | Fatchett, Derek |
| Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V) | Faulds, Andrew |
| Campbell-Savours, D. N. | Field, Frank (Birkenhead) |
| Cann, Jamie | Fisher, Mark |
| Chisholm, Malcolm | Flynn, Paul |
| Clapham, Michael | Foster, Derek (B'p Auckland) |
| Clark, Dr David (South Shields) | Foster, Don (Bath) |
| Clarke, Eric (Midlothian) | Foulkes, George |
| Clarke, Tom (Monklands W) | Fraser, John |
| Clelland, David | Galloway, George |
| Gapes, Mike | Jowell, Tessa |
| Garrett, John | Keen, Alan |
| George, Bruce | Kennedy, Charles (Ross,C&S) |
| Gerrard, Neil | Khabra, Piara S. |
| Gilbert, Rt Hon Dr John | Kilfoyle, Peter |
| Godman, Dr Norman A. | Kirkwood, Archy |
| Godsiff, Roger | Leighton, Ron |
| Golding, Mrs Llin | Lestor, Joan (Eccles) |
| Gordon, Mildred | Lewis, Terry |
| Gould, Bryan | Litherland, Robert |
| Graham, Thomas | Livingstone, Ken |
| Grant, Bernie (Tottenham) | Lloyd, Tony (Stratford) |
| Griffiths, Win (Bridgend) | Loyden, Eddie |
| Grocott, Bruce | Lynne, Ms Liz |
| Gunnell, John | McAllion, John |
| Hain, Peter | McAvoy, Thomas |
| Hall, Mike | McCartney, Ian |
| Hanson, David | Macdonald, Calum |
| Hardy, Peter | McFall, John |
| Harman, Ms Harriet | McKelvey, William |
| Harvey, Nick | Mackinlay, Andrew |
| Hattersley, Rt Hon Roy | McLeish, Henry |
| Henderson, Doug | Maclennan, Robert |
| Heppell, John | McMaster, Gordon |
| Hill, Keith (Streatham) | McNamara, Kevin |
| Hinchliffe, David | Madden, Max |
| Hoey, Kate | Mahon, Alice |
| Hood, Jimmy | Mandelson, Peter |
| Hoon, Geoffrey | Marek, Dr John |
| Howarth, George (Knowsley N) | Marshall, David (Shettleston) |
| Howells, Dr. Kim (Pontypridd) | Marshall, Jim (Leicester, S) |
| Hoyle, Doug | Martin, Michael J. (Springburn) |
| Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N) | Martlew, Eric |
| Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen N) | Meacher, Michael |
| Hughes, Roy (Newport E) | Michael, Alun |
| Hughes, Simon (Southward) | Michie, Bill (Sheffield Heeley) |
| Hutton, John | Michie, Mrs Ray (Argyll Bute) |
| Illsley, Eric | Milburn, Alan |
| Ingram, Adam | Miller, Andrew |
| Jackson, Glenda (H'stead) | Mitchell, Austin (Gt Grimsby) |
| Jackson, Helen (Shef'ld, H) | Moonie, Dr Lewis |
| Jamieson, David | Morgan, Rhodri |
| Johnston, Sir Russell | Morley, Elliot |
| Jones, Barry (Alyn and D'side) | Morris, Rt Hon A. (Wy'nshawe) |
| Jones, Lynne (B'ham S O) | Morris, Estelle (B'ham Yardley) |
| Jones, Martyn (Clwyd, SW) | Morris, Rt Hon J. (Aberavon) |
| Jones, Nigel (Cheltenham) | Mowlam, Marjorie |
| Mudie, George | Skinner, Dennis |
| Mullin, Chris | Smith, Andrew (Oxford E) |
| Murphy, Paul | Smith, C. (Isl'ton S & F'sbury) |
| Oakes, Rt Hon Gordon | Smith, Rt Hon John (M'kl'ds E) |
| O'Brien, Michael (N W'kshire) | Smith, Llew (Blaenau Gwent) |
| O'Brien, William (Normanton) | Snape, Peter |
| O'Hara, Edward | Soley, Clive |
| Olner, William | Spearing, Nigel |
| O'Neill, Martin | Spellar, John |
| Orme, Rt Hon Stanley | Squire, Rachel (Dunfermline W) |
| Parry, Robert | Steinberg, Gerry |
| Patchett, Terry | Stevenson, George |
| Pendry, Tom | Stott, Roger |
| Pickthall, Colin | Strang, Dr. Gavin |
| Pike, Peter L. | Straw, Jack |
| Pope, Greg | Taylor, Mrs Ann (Dewsbury) |
| Powell, Ray (Ogmore) | Thompson, Jack (Wansbeck) |
| Prentice, Ms Bridget (Lew'm E) | Tipping, Paddy |
| Prentice, Gordon (Pendle) | Turner, Dennis |
| Prescott, John | Tyler, Paul |
| Primarolo, Dawn | Vaz, Keith |
| Purchase, Ken | Walker, Rt Hon Sir Harold |
| Quin, Ms Joyce | Walley, Joan |
| Radice, Giles | Wardell, Gareth (Gower) |
| Raynsford, Nick | Watson, Mike |
| Redmond, Martin | Welsh, Andrew |
| Reid, Dr John | Wicks, Malcolm |
| Robertson, George (Hamilton) | Wigley, Dafydd |
| Robinson, Geoffrey (Co'try NW) | Williams, Rt Hon Alan (Sw'n W) |
| Roche, Mrs. Barbara | Williams, Alan W (Carmarthen) |
| Rogers, Allan | Wilson, Brian |
| Rooker, Jeff | Winnick, David |
| Rooney, Terry | Wise, Audrey |
| Ross, Ernie (Dundee W) | Worthington, Tony |
| Ruddock, Joan | Wray, Jimmy |
| Salmond, Alex | Wright, Dr Tony |
| Sedgemore, Brian | Young, David (Bolton SE) |
| Sheerman, Barry | |
| Sheldon, Rt Hon Robert | Tellers for the Noes: |
| Shore, Rt Hon Peter | Mr. Alan Meale and |
| Simpson, Alan | Mr. Jon Owen Jones. |
§ Question accordingly agreed to.
§ Bill read the Third time, and passed.