HC Deb 08 February 1993 vol 218 cc666-8
2. Ms. Hoey

To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what plans he has to improve transport in London by river.

Mr. Norris

I recently announced the formation of the River Thames working group which, under my chairmanship, will study the potential for developing freight and passenger traffic on the river and identify the scope for private sector improvements.

Ms. Hoey

I am sure that the Minister agrees that the river is vastly underused as a form of public transport for Londoners. Will he congratulate London Riverbus on managing to put together another deal that means that it can survive for a little longer? Does he agree that the only way in which we shall see the river used by Londoners is to bring river transport within the London travel network card?

Mr. Norris

It is precisely because I agree with the hon. Lady that we should fully exploit the potential of the Thames—not only for passengers, but for non-time sensitive bulk cargo, tourism and so on—that the working party has been established. I am glad that London Riverbus appears to have its funding in place for the rest of the year. It has, of course, always been a private sector initiative. It is supported now by private bodies because they recognise that it has marketing potential.

The hon. Lady will know that the present access arrangements are based on the concept of revenue forgone. Given the high operating costs of London Riverbus, the management accepts that a straight transfer to the travel card would be impracticable. It has raised the issue with me on several occasions and I know that it attaches importance to the matter.

Mr. Dunn

My hon. Friend will know that the Thames is the northern boundary of Dartford constituency. Apart from separating Kent from Essex, it is a greatly underused resource. Does he agree that if more freight and commuter traffic could be moved on to the river, congestion on the roads would be reduced enormously in south-east London?

Mr. Tony Banks

Stand up for Essex.

Mr. Norris

To respond to the hon. Gentleman's sedentary invitation to stand up for Essex, I can say only that I can think of better uses for the Thames than keeping us in Essex away from the good people of Kent. For what it is worth, my hon. Friend the Member for Dartford (Mr. Dunn) is entirely right. About 40 per cent. of London's domestic waste, for example, is transported down the Thames by barge. That means that every day literally dozens of heavy lorry movements do not take place, with the result that some of the congestion on our roads is relieved by river transportation. We want that potential to be exploited to the full.

Mr. Tony Banks

Will the Minister's River Thames committee consider the proposal to have on the river a floating heliport that could move around 22 sites between Battersea and the Thames barrier? Apparently it would need no planning arrangements or agreements, so implementation would be a matter for the Minister. If he knows about the proposal to have 4,000 annual civil flights and 400 military flights, will he tell us more about the 400 military flights? Will they be by helicopter gunships to ensure that the unemployed are following up the workfare scheme?

Mr. Norris

I know of that proposal and I agree with the hon. Gentleman that several aspects of it seem bizarre to say the least. It clearly cannot be right that the facility should be provided ad hoc. It is primarily a matter for my right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State for the Environment. I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman's concern, which I assure him I share. I shall make sure that the project is fully explored by the Government before it is taken further.

Mr. Jacques Arnold

My hon. Friend will no doubt be aware of the river service that will shortly start between Gravesend and Canary Wharf. Let us hope that it will extend further to central London and even to Speaker's Steps. Will my hon. Friend do all that he can to ensure proper access to pontoons up the river into central London and, indeed, the provision of further pontoons because it is absurd that constituents who commute cannot use this magnificent 20-lane motorway into central London?

Mr. Norris

I welcome the new ideas that are being advanced to expand use of the Thames, especially long-range use from areas such as my hon. Friend's constituency into central London. The working party was set up to investigate access to wharves, quays and pontoons and to ensure that, where possible, the Government consider all the possibilities.