HC Deb 08 December 1993 vol 234 cc302-3
6. Mr. McMaster

To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland when he next plans to meet representatives of the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities to discuss the provision of local services.

Mr. Stewart

My right hon. Friend and I are scheduled to meet representatives of COSLA on 28 January as part of the normal consultation on local government finance matters.

Mr. McMaster

Will the Minister join me in congratulating the constituents of my hon. Friend the Member for Paisley, North (Mrs. Adams), who rejected plans to opt out Paisley grammar school by an overwhelming majority of 41? May I also take this opportunity to thank the Minister, whose personal intervention helped to ensure the defeat of those plans? If the Minister accepts the wishes of the 80 per cent. of people who voted in that ballot—as I think he does—why will he not accept the wishes of the 82 per cent. of people in Ralston and the 79 per cent. of people in Barrhead, Neilston and Uplawmoor who recently voted in a referendum to reject unnecessary, unwanted, costly and gerrymandering proposals that would bring about the destruction of Scottish local government?

Mr. Stewart

The hon. Gentleman spent a good deal of time during the last general election canvassing against me in Barrhead—a fact to which I largely attribute my increased majority.

There are legal questions concerning the legitimacy of the referendum to which the hon. Gentleman referred. Those questions are currently being explored, and there is a possibility of an eventual surcharge on the local councillors who voted for the proposal. The hon. Gentleman will appreciate that, in the circumstances, I can say no more about that issue specifically.

The hon. Gentleman's original question concerned local government finance. I am astonished that he did not draw attention to the generosity of my right hon. Friend's local government finance settlement this year. Per capita expenditure on local government in Scotland is substantially higher than that in England and Wales.

Mr. Raymond S. Robertson

Will my hon. Friend confirm that, notwithstanding the scaremongering of Opposition Front Benchers, single-tier authorities throughout Scotland will be cheaper to run and more accountable to the electorate, and will save the council tax payer money?

Mr. Stewart

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Allegations to the contrary from the Opposition are wholly contradicted by what Labour councils actually say in their individual submissions to the Scottish Office. I will give an example. In its submission to the Scottish Office, Dundee district council—hardly a safe haven for Toryism—estimates that the council tax bill would be £14.45 cheaper per Dundee household if there were a Dundee, rather than a Tayside, unitary authority. That is the evidence from Labour councils.

Mrs. Adams

Is the Minister aware that I loved last week's good news from Paisley grammar school? In his answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Paisley, South (Mr. McMaster), he seemed to be telling us that he himself was opting out of democracy and was unwilling to accept the views of the people in Renfrew district who told him that they did not want the new local authorities that he proposes to set up. Will he assure me that he accepts the views of parents of children at Paisley grammar school, and also that he agrees with the hon. Member for Ayr (Mr. Gallie), who told me in a television programme last week that he believed in devolving power?

Mr. Stewart

Of course the Government accept the vote concerning Paisley grammar school. It was this Government who gave parents the choice to make that decision, and this Government who saved Paisley grammar school when friends of the hon. Members for Paisley, North (Mrs. Adams) and for Paisley, South (Mr. McMaster) wanted to close it for ideological reasons. The Government gave parents a choice on their future.

Mr. McFall

The parents of pupils at Paisley grammar school have spoken for Scottish education, but who speaks for the Government? Is it the Minister responsible for education, who stated on national television that the result showed a high level of parental satisfaction with the present system, or is it the Secretary of State, who stated that 20 per cent. of the electorate voting to opt out represented a success? I concede that 20 per cent. is a solid achievement in Tory terms, but to everyone else it is a miserable failure. Will the Secretary of State give an assurance that he will clear up that confusion by the time he meets the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities on 28 January—and that the Government, after getting a bloody nose, will in a spirit of humility stop destabilising Scottish education and support and encourage local authorities, parents and pupils in their education efforts?

Mr. Stewart

Will the hon. Gentleman and his friends give a guarantee that the Labour party will not close Paisley grammar school? That guarantee has not been given. Labour tried it before and will try it again.

Mr. Welsh

Will the Minister guarantee to COSLA that he will not pack the Standing Committee on the Local Government etc. (Scotland) Bill with Conservative Members representing English seats—a guarantee that he singularly failed to give in correspondence?

Mr. Stewart

The hon. Gentleman has corresponded with me on that matter, but the Committee's membership is a matter for the Committee of Selection. The hon. Gentleman will acknowledge that he and I disagree on a fundamental point: I take the view that this is the House of Commons of the United Kingdom.