National Audit Office (Hansard, 19 April 1993)

§ 31. Mr. Dowd
To ask the Chairman of the Public Accounts Commission what proportion of the National Audit Office's resources in 1993–94 will be devoted to the certification of public accounts.

§ Sir Peter Hordern (Chairman of the Public Accounts Commission)
The National Audit Office is allocating 44 per cent. of its budget for audit work to certification activities in 1993–94.

§ Mr. Dowd
I thank the Chairman of the Public Accounts Commission for that response. Can he give the House his estimate of the increase in costs that will be required by the National Audit Office to undertake a more detailed analysis of the accounts that come before it, such as the components under the main headings of the accounts of Government Departments? Given that it is likely to be a large and disproportionate increase in costs, what guidelines is the Commission prepared to offer through the National Audit Office to Departments to ensure that what is defined in main headings is what is included in those parts of the accounts so that items such as Ministers' legal expenses cannot be buried under headings such as "stationery"?

§ Sir Peter Hordern
The National Audit Office expects to increase the number of certifications that it does during the next few years from 498 to 560, at a significant reduction in real costs. I do not expect anything to happen during the next few years that will involve extra costs for the National Audit Office. The Public Accounts Commission is satisfied with its further programme.

§ Mr. Janner
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Select Committee on Employment has asked the National Audit Office whether it can work out the true cost of unemployment, especially what it costs when a person is made unemployed, not merely as a result of tax not paid but in terms of the benefits that the person and his family will receive? Will the right hon. Gentleman be good enough to lean on the National Audit Office to provide that information, because I am sure that no one else in the United Kingdom is willing to do so?

§ Sir Peter Hordern
I will certainly pass the hon. and learned Gentleman's comments on to the Comptroller and Auditor General. Strictly speaking, it is more a matter for the Public Accounts Committee than for the Commission, but I will certainly pass on the hon. and learned Gentleman's views.

§ Mr. Campbell-Savours
Will the right hon. Gentleman answer specifically the question that he was asked about ministerial expenses and how they are defined in departmental accounts? Is he concerned about what has happened recently? Does he think that he should perhaps convene a meeting with the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee and the Comptroller and Auditor General to see whether a way forward can be found whereby such expenses, when incurred, are clearly set out in Government accounts in a way that the public can understand?

§ Sir Peter Hordern
These are important and interesting matters and can be dealt with fully by the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee, to which the hon. Gentleman has every access.