Local Government Reform (Hansard, 19 October 1992)

§ 1. Mr. Jon Owen Jones
To ask the Secretary of State for Wales when he intends to make clear his detailed plans for local government reform.

§ The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr. David Hunt)
May I start by welcoming the hon. Members for Cynon Valley (Mrs. Clwyd) and for Cardiff, West (Mr. Morgan) to their new positions on the Opposition Front Bench. The answer to Question 1 is as soon as possible.

§ Mr. Jones
Why is it that the Prime Minister spent part of the weekend discussing subsidiarity with the rest of the European Governments yet when there is an opportunity to put subsidiarity into effect through local government reform in Wales the Government do not take it?

§ Mr. Hunt
The local government reform that we are pursuing in Wales is as a result of a combined agreement at the outset between the counties and the districts that there should be unitary authorities in Wales. I recognise that there is also strong feeling, which has been expressed to me by the local authority associations, that there should be an assembly in Wales. But I say to the hon. Gentleman and all those who propose such an assembly that we have been through all that before. The people of Wales rejected an assembly by a majority of four to one.

§ Mr. Rod Richards
In his consultation paper the Secretary of State said that he sought consensus. Has he received a submission from the Labour party?

§ Mr. Hunt
Although we have had the most widespread consultation, I have to tell the House that I am still waiting to hear from the Labour party about what it would propose on local government reform. A manifesto published at the time of the last election says: We will create"— this is a Labour Government— a single tier of 25 to 30 unitary local authorities. I understand that the previous figure was 17 to 25. I hope that the Labour party will make up its mind and tell me what its plans are so that I can take them into account in the consultation.

§ Mr. Murphy
The Secretary of State still has not told the House or the people of Wales whether there will be local government reform according to the timetable which he has already outlined. Does he have Treasury approval 188 for the local government plans? There are some estimates that it will cost as much as £50 million. If that is the case, can he today give us a guarantee that there will be no adverse effects on the spending proposals for Wales that he intends to make in the next few weeks?

§ Mr. Hunt
I reaffirm the statement that I made in the House on 3 March in which I proposed the creation of 23 unitary authorities in Wales. I reaffirm the timetable that I announced then. The new unitary authorities will be operational as from 1995. I say to the hon. Gentleman again that there is still time for the Labour party to make detailed proposals rather than merely throw out figures of 25 to 30. The preliminary signs are that if we moved in the direction proposed in the Labour party's manifesto, there would be costs over and above those of my present proposals. Will the hon. Gentleman please make up his mind and tell us his and his party's plans?