§ 29. Mr. SkinnerTo ask the Parliamentary Secretary, Lord Chancellor's Department whether he will consider introducing improvements to the legal aid system; and if he will make a statement.
Mr. John M. TaylorThe legal aid scheme is kept under constant review to ensure that it is operating as effeciently and effectively as possible.
§ Mr. SkinnerIs there not something seriously wrong with the allocation of legal aid when a miner receiving redundancy pay is not allowed such aid to enable him to sue British Coal for stealing £735 million from the pension fund, but, as I read the other day, the Maxwell brothers, who have been charged with stealing the Mirror pension funds, have been granted it? Where is the classless society represented in such double standards?
§ Mr. SkinnerGo on, then. Answer it.
Mr. TaylorI cannot comment on individual cases. The grant of legal aid in civil cases is dependent on whether there will be any benefits gained from litigation. In criminal cases, the test is the means of the applicant and the interests of justice. Either the Legal Aid Board or the court independently assesses these cases. If people are aggrieved by someone having been granted legal aid, they can object—and that includes the hon. Gentleman.
§ Sir Ivan LawrenceAs two of the problems concerning civil legal aid are, first, that it requires the Government to 202 sign a blank cheque and, secondly, that it excludes a large number of people from access to the courts, will my hon. Friend give serious consideration to encouraging private legal aid insurance, which would relieve both those problems?
Mr. TaylorI thank my hon. and learned Friend for his question. There is a role for legal expenses insurance. I think that it is to be pursued. My hon. and learned Friend may have a valuable role to play. We also have progress to make in respect of conditional fees for which the courts and legal services legislation expressly paved the way.
§ 30. Mr. SteenTo ask the Parliamentary Secretary, Lord Chancellor's Department what plans he has to review the working of the legal aid fund.
§ Mr. SteenIs the Minister aware that in each of my surgeries an increasing number of wives and young children are being—[Interruption.]
§ Madam SpeakerOrder. We are still in Question Time and the hon. Member for South Hams (Mr. Steen) has the Floor.
§ Madam SpeakerOrder. Mr. Steen—third time lucky.
§ Mr. SteenIs the Minister aware that in each of my surgeries in the last year an increasing number of wives with young children have told me that they have been abandoned by their husbands, leaving the state to pick up the tab? Will the Minister find a way of ensuring that husbands who abandon their wives and young children do not receive legal aid and that wives who need legal aid obtain it so that they can pursue their husbands and get the money for their children and for themselves?
Mr. TaylorAny marriage breakdown—it is always a tragedy—is especially a tragedy for the children. Whatever the rights and wrongs of legal assistance may be in the case of the parting parents, the Lord Chancellor's Department would wish there to be a legal aid system for matrimonial affairs that looks after the interests of the children, which are absolutely paramount.
§ Mr. CryerIs not the legal aid system designed to help people on low incomes? Will not a system of flat fees for legal aid inevitably work against very poor people, who will be deprived of proper legal representation, particularly in lengthy or complicated cases? Will the Minister reject entirely today in Parliament the concept of flat fees?
Mr. TaylorI will not in any way forswear the concept of standard fees, which are a good idea. Standard fees tend to reward proficiency. The only consequence of legal aid as it is at the moment is that the bloke who takes longest gets paid most. That does not seem to be very satisfactory.