§ 39. Mr. Simon HughesTo ask the Parliamentary Secretary, Lord Chancellor's Department what representations he has received on the new proposals concerning eligibility for legal aid; and if he will make a statement.
The Parliamentary Secretary to the Lord Chancellor's Department (Mr. John M. Taylor)I have received a number of such representations.
§ Mr. HughesIs there not something rotten in the state of Britain when, within one month, the Chancellor of the Exchequer can announce proposals that will make 10 million people ineligible for legal aid and yet can be allowed to spend £4,000—his own private legal aid scheme—on paying his own private bill for an entirely private 15 matter? What has Britain come to, and is there any integrity left in Cabinet Ministers and Officers of the Crown?
Mr. TaylorI cannot comment on the hon. Gentleman's references to 10 million people. I do not know how the calculation was made. Last year, 250,000 people litigated with legal aid, which makes claims of about 10 million people look pretty silly. The hon. Gentleman wholly improperly seeks to make a connection between my right hon. Friend's legal expenses on the one hand and legal aid on the other. They are quite different issues.
§ Mr. BoatengThe hon. Member for Southwark and Bermondsey (Mr. Hughes) is not alone in making that connection. Given the difficulty that increasing numbers of our fellow citizens, of modest means and with just causes, have in obtaining legal aid, can the Minister tell us what was the basis on which legal aid was granted to the Chancellor of the Exchequer in his own seemingly less than deserving case? Furthermore, will the Minister publish the guidelines upon which legal aid was granted? If there are no such guidelines and if the Lord Chancellor's Department has not been consulted upon them, why not? As the profession's friend in these matters, will the Minister also point out to the Chancellor of the Exchequer that if he must instruct a solicitor at public expense there are other solicitors to whom he might go who are considerably cheaper?
Mr. TaylorYes, I used to be one of those cheaper solicitors myself. The hon. Gentleman wrongly referred to resources placed at the disposal of the Chancellor of the Exchequer as legal aid. It was not legal aid of the kind that the hon. Gentleman and I refer to. The then Permanent Secretary to the Treasury decided at the time that it was reasonable to meet a small proportion of the Chancellor's legal fees, including covering the cost of putting out an initial statement and handling subsequent press inquiries. I invite the hon. Gentleman to join me in this conclusion: we ought to bear it in mind that the provision of legal aid and assistance at public expense is almost unique in this country. It is infinitely the best provision that is made anywhere in the world. The authority for that is Lord Williams of Mostyn, chairman of the Bar Council, who speaks for the Labour party in another place.