HC Deb 03 November 1992 vol 213 cc136-8
8. Mr. Canavan

To ask the Secretary of State for Employment what is the total number of unemployed people in the United Kingdom.

Mrs. Gillian Shephard

It is 2,843,300 people.

Mr. Canavan

Will the Secretary of State now tell us the whole truth, which is that there are more than 3.9 million unemployed people if we use the original counting base that was inherited by the Government? Is the right hon. Lady not ashamed of today's revelation in "Labour Research" that state benefits for unemployed people are among the lowest in the European Community, amounting to only 14 per cent. of average earnings compared with 90 per cent., for example, in Denmark? That goes to prove that the Government are fiddling the figures and cheating the victims of unemployment.

Mrs. Shephard

The hon. Gentleman will no doubt be pleased to note that the September figures show a fall in unemployment in his constituency. I totally reject his figures. He knows that we have calculated unemployment, based on payments since 1986. That is a correct and easily understandable way of calculating unemployment. These figures have been corroborated by the findings of the labour force survey. The hon. Gentleman, who follows these matters, will no doubt be delighted by that corroboration. When it comes to benefits, the hon. Gentleman should ask not about the amount that is paid but about how long payment continues.

Mr. Ralph Howell

As most unemployed people desperately want to work and in view of the success that workfare has had in the United States, which my right hon. Friend recently visited to examine that system, will she confirm that serious consideration is being given to introducing the workfare system in this country?

Mrs. Shephard

I know that my hon. Friend is enthusiastic about workfare. However, all the indications are, as he knows, that workfare is very expensive to organise. He should remember that unemployed people are not an inert mass who can be pushed around. They are all individuals. Such a provision might be suitable for some but not for others. What is important is that unemployed people should have the opportunity, if they so wish, to keep in touch with work skills. Employment action, as part of the range of measures that we have within the Department, performs that function.

Mr. Jim Marshall

Is the Secretary of State aware that there is increasing concern among the Sikh community that the Government's refusal to extend the exemption regarding protective headgear to all industries is likely to increase unemployment in that community? In view of that and of the unacceptably high unemployment figures, will the Secretary of State at this late stage change the Government's attitude?

Mrs. Shephard

The regulations emanate from the European Commission. I am aware of the concern. My hon. Friend is closely in touch with people in that community, but it is a Commission regulation.

Mr. Tony Lloyd

Will the Secretary of State contrast the £26 billion that it now costs the Exchequer to fund unemployment here with the £2.6 billion that she quoted as the figure that we now spend on training? Will she also contrast the misery and despair that is felt by the millions of people who have been thrown into unemployment by the Government with the hopelessness of the training programme that her Department makes available? She will be judged by what happens during the present round of Cabinet deliberations—by whether she comes out of those deliberations not with a standstill or cut budget but with a bigger budget. Then we can begin to put proper money into training schemes, not simply for those who are already unemployed but for those who will be thrown out of work over the next 12 months.

Mrs. Shephard

Perhaps I might correct the hon. Gentleman by telling him that benefit costs to unemployed people are £7.36 billion, not the figure that he mentioned. Of course I have every possible sympathy for people who become unemployed, and for their families. It is a devastating blow. What matters is that the range of measures that we have introduced are cost effective and work fast. Two thirds of the people who become unemployed find employment within six months. A quarter of them find employment within a month. For those who do not, we need the range of measures that is provided by both the Employment Service and the training and enterprise councils. A record amount of money is being spent on a record number of measures. That is what unemployed people want, and that is what we shall continue to provide.