HC Deb 14 May 1992 vol 207 cc732-3
3. Mr. Simon Hughes

To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what initiatives he proposes to take to reduce the carrying and use of knives and guns in London.

Mr. Charles Wardle

The Government have already strengthened controls on firearms and knives and we are keeping the position under close review. Enforcement of the law in London is a matter for the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis.

Mr. Hughes

Given that the Home Secretary is the police authority for London, will he take cognisance of the fact that robberies using firearms or pointed weapons, usually knives, have increased significantly over the past five years? In Southwark, both types of robbery have increased by more or less 80 per cent. Will the Minister seriously consider responding positively to an initiative that will be coming his way shortly from the police consultative group in Southwark for a proper campaign to persuade young people in particular that carrying firearms and knives is in neither society's nor their own interest?

Mr. Wardle

The hon. Gentleman is right to say that there has been an increase in armed robbery, but it is worth pointing out that only one fifth of 1 per cent. of all recorded offences in 1990 involved firearms. Any representations will be taken seriously, and the hon. Gentleman may know that a Home Office study has been commissioned into the source of firearms used in armed raids and robberies. He will also know that the Government have taken action through the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 and the amnesty on firearms in London that followed and have also made it an offence to carry a knife in public places without good reason.

Mr. Wilkinson

Even quiet residential parts of outer London are now, I will not say terrorised, but certainly subject to many more incidents of armed robbery. Local residents are deeply disquieted, as I am. Will my hon. Friend assure the House that penalties for armed robbery will be dramatically increased, because deterrents are clearly not adequate?

Mr. Wardle

My hon. Friend is right to say that it has been recognised that there is an increasing number of armed robberies. He should bear it in mind that the maximum penalty for possession of a firearm with intent to endanger life or to resist arrest is life imprisonment, and it is also an offence for a person to have a bladed or sharply pointed weapon in a public place without good reason.

Mr. Randall

Is the Minister aware that the Criminal Justice Act 1988, which created new offences for these types of crimes, is not resulting in sufficient convictions because of the difficulty of obtaining adequate evidence so that people can be stopped on the grounds of reasonable suspicion? Is he also aware that there is no possibility of ever going back to the old sus-type laws for stopping and searching? What practical steps, therefore, will the Minister take to deal with the dilemma?

Mr. Wardle

The Criminal Justice Act 1988 provided stiffer penalties. The Government believe that police powers to stop and search under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 are adequate. They strike a balance between a constable's discretion to search and the protection of the citizen against arbitrary interference, which is extremely important.

Mr. Gale

This is my first opportunity to welcome my hon. Friend to the Dispatch Box. I suggest to him that the incidents of armed crime involving knives and guns have increased dramatically year on year since the abolition of capital punishment. Will he tell the House what further measures he and the Home Office intend to take to afford proper protection to the men and women of the police force whom we require to enforce our law and every day to face men and women carrying guns and using them against them?

Mr. Wardle

I thank my hon. Friend for his first remark. On capital punishment, he will certainly be aware that its reintroduction is a matter for a free vote in Parliament, and it will no doubt arise again in the future.

The protection of the police was precisely the purpose of the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988. It was also precisely the purpose of the amnesty that followed and of the initiatives about six months ago which resulted in the collection of about 1,100 dangerous knives and similar weapons. Another study is being undertaken to review policemen's protective clothing in view of possible attacks by people carrying knives or similar weapons.