§ 9. Mr. CanavanTo ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what has been the income to the Treasury since May 1979 from (a) privatisation and (b) North sea oil revenues.
§ Mr. MaplesBetween 1979–80 and 1991–92, privatisation proceeds are expected to amount to about £42 billion, and North sea oil revenues to £71 billion.
§ Mr. CanavanWill the Minister have the decency to admit that the true answer to my question is that at today's prices the Tories have taken more than £100 billion in North sea oil revenues and more than £50 billion from selling the family silver? Does he seriously think that the British people will be conned by a party that has squandered more than £150 billion of public money and is now hell bent on trying to borrow an additional £28 billion in a desperate but vain attempt to buy success at the general election?
§ Mr. MaplesOur attempts to borrow have certainly been nothing like so desperate as those of the Labour Government. Privatisation proceeds and North sea oil revenues have reduced the levels of public sector debt from 50 per cent. of our national income to about 27½ per cent. If they were still at 50 per cent., which was the level that we inherited from the Labour Government, they would be £140 billion higher.
§ Sir William ClarkDoes my hon. Friend agree that apart from the capital receipts from privatisation the amount of income given to the Exchequer has been much increased because most of the nationalised industries that have been privatised are now making profits, whereas previously many of them made losses? Consequently, the Exchequer benefits not only from the capital receipts, but from revenue receipts, corporation tax and tax on dividends.
§ Mr. MaplesMy right hon. Friend is absolutely right. Privatisation has been an enormous success. Anybody who seriously thinks that British Airways or British Telecom were better run businesses when they were in the public sector must be going round with their eyes shut. What is amazing is that the Opposition still plan to renationalise the water industry and large bits of the electricity industry.
§ Dr. MarekCan the Minister explain how it is that in the 13 years when the Conservatives have received either £71 billion or more than £100 billion in North sea oil revenues and nearly £50 billion from selling the family silver, and when the taxation is higher now—with VAT, a regressive tax, at 17.5 per cent. compared with 8 per cent. in 1979—our trains do not run on time, or at all, more people live in poverty, national health service waiting lists are at their highest levels ever and we are borrowing £28 billion this year, with public debt rapidly increasing? Where has the money gone?
§ Mr. MaplesIt is interesting that all the examples that the hon. Gentleman picks of bad services are not among businesses that have been privatised. I give him the answer that I gave to his hon. Friend the Member for Falkirk, East (Mr. Canavan). One thing that the money has done is to reduce the level of public sector debt from 50 to 27½ per cent. of national income. That is equivalent to £140 billion, which would involve interest of £14 billion or £15 billion per year. That is one of the differences. The Labour party apparently plans to reverse that.
§ Sir John HannamWill my hon. Friend confirm that over the next two years the Revenue will expect some £13.5 billion from privatisation proceeds? A Labour Government who do not pursue that privatisation policy will find that the £13.5 billion will have to be raised from an increase in the public sector borrowing requirement.
§ Mr. MaplesMy hon. Friend raises an extremely interesting point. Labour has £37 billion of public spending plans to finance and it will not receive £13 billion of privatisation revenues. It will also have the cost of privatising the water industry, although the hon. Member for Newham, North-West (Mr. Banks) said that Labour would do that without compensation, so it may not cost Labour anything.