Points of Order (Hansard, 22 June 1992)

§ Mr. Michael Meacher (Oldham, West)
On a point of order, Madam Speaker. Have you received a request from the Secretary of State for Social Security, or from any other Minister, about making a statement on the report by the Investment Management Regulatory Organisation on the Maxwell pension funds? The House needs to see the report because, if it reveals spectacular failure in the process of the regulation of the Maxwell pension fund, not only does that suggest that the Financial Services Act 1986 is deeply flawed—

§ Madam Speaker
Order. I have received no request today by any Minister to make a statement on that issue or on any other issue.

§ Mr. George Foulkes (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley)
On a point of order, Madam Speaker. You know that I am not one for causing trouble—not recently, anyway. I should be grateful if you would point out gently to the hon. Member for Bury, South (Mr. Sumberg) that, until such time as there is a change in the constitution of the United Kingdom, it is open to Scottish Members to raise any question at any time.

§ Madam Speaker
The hon. Gentleman is absolutely correct; and I am sure that he will remember the point in Scottish Question Time.

§ Mr. Jeff Rooker (Birmingham, Perry Barr)
I will not ask whether you have received a request from a Minister to make a statement, Madam Speaker. In view of what you have just said, clearly you have not.
The Community Care (Residential Accommodation) Bill is now in Committee. Before it meets again tomorrow, will you consider whether it is possible for you to suspend the sittings of the Committee until a Minister has made a statement in the House about the rumours, about the Government's plans to abort the implementation of community care which was planned for next April? Week by week, rumours are coming out of the specialist press and other media that the Government will abort the plans. We know that in July 1990 they aborted the plans for implementation in 1991—

§ Madam Speaker
Order. The hon. Gentleman is trying to make a speech rather than putting a point of order to me. Any suspension of the Committee is up to the Chairman of the Committee. The matter should not be raised on the Floor of the House.

§ Mr. Dennis Skinner (Bolsover)
On a point of order, Madam Speaker. A few minutes ago, you made a ruling about saying things about the royal family. It seems strange to me that hon. Members can grovel in the House to the royal family, they can praise them up to the hilt, and they can say anything they like about them in the hope that they will get a knighthood or get into the honours list, yet if hon. Members want to speak the truth about the royal family, they are pulled up. Why cannot I demand that the Queen pays taxes? Why?

§ Madam Speaker
The hon. Gentleman is perfectly in order in making that demand. I repeat that no criticism of 20 a personal nature can be made about any individual other than by way of a substantive motion. That is the statement I made.

§ Mr. David Winnick (Walsall, North)
On a point of order, Madam Speaker. You said that you have received no request that a Minister wants to make a statement today. I would much appreciate some guidance. Can you tell us how it would be possible, at the earliest opportunity, to raise the question of police killings and the suspension of talks in South Africa? Slaughter is taking place there. The British Foreign Secretary has said on many occasions that sanctions are no longer necessary. How can we raise the important issue of what is happening in South Africa, the continuing bloodshed and the suspension of talks which will hopefully lead to majority rule? Foreign Office questions will not be—

§ Madam Speaker
Order. I have some indication of when Foreign Office questions are to be taken. If the hon. Gentleman uses a little ingenuity, he will make use of the time when the Prime Minister comes to the Dispatch Box tomorrow and later in the week to answer questions.

§ Mr. Peter Hain (Neath)
Further to that point of order, Madam Speaker. I note your earlier ruling, but surely, after the appalling massacres of black citizens by the South African police, the Government should immediately introduce diplomatic sanctions, including the suspension of South Africa from the Olympic games—

§ Madam Speaker
Order. Points of order should be for me to deal with and should concern Standing Orders and our procedures. There has been no breach of our Standing Orders or procedures. I cannot respond on matters of policy.

§ Mr. Tony Banks (Newham, North-West)
On a point of order, Madam Speaker. I am sure that I misunderstood your ruling in reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner). You said that one should not criticise any individual other than on a motion. I assume that you meant any individual member of the royal family, not any individual. If I wanted to call Rupert Murdoch a pillock, it might not be pleasant, but it could not possibly be out of order.

§ Madam Speaker
The question that we were discussing concerned the royal family and the reference was to an individual member of the royal family.

§ Mr. Win Griffiths (Bridgend)
On a point of order, Madam Speaker. Would you consider the way in which Welsh questions are conducted? A serious problem seems to arise from the fact that, of the 38 Welsh Members of Parliament, only four are from the Conservative party. Out of the 12 Welsh questions that you took today, there were only two opportunities for you to call Labour Members to ask a supplementary question. Will you consider the matter to ascertain whether there can be a fairer representation of Members' views in supplementary questions?

§ Madam Speaker
I carefully consider questions and how to conduct them before I come into the Chair. I realised on 27 April that I would not make all hon. Members happy all the time.

§ Mr. Skinner
rose—

§ Madam Speaker
Order. The hon. Gentleman has raised his point of order.

§ Mr. Skinner
The question arises out of—

§ Madam Speaker
Order. Another hon. Member has a point of order to raise.

§ Mr. Skinner
I want to know—

§ Madam Speaker
Order. The hon. Member for Leyton (Mr. Cohen) has a point of order.

§ Mr. Harry Cohen (Leyton)
Further to the point of order raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Newham, North-West ( Mr. Banks) and your answer to it, Madam Speaker. You gave a different ruling today from your ruling to me and to my hon. Friend the Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner). You said that we could criticise individuals as long as they were not members of the royal family. You have reinterpreted the rule. Where does that ruling come from? Is it merely a convention? If so, surely we can challenge it as being out of date. I remind you that you are supposed to represent Back Benchers' interests, and we should have the right to say what we wish.

§ Madam Speaker
On a substantive motion, we can say what we like. The hon. Gentleman should refer to "Erskine May", but I cannot remember the page. If he comes to see me, I shall turn it up for him.

§ Mr. Skinner
On a point of order arising from what you said about the royal family, Madam Speaker. This is a fair question. How big is the royal family? How many people are we not allowed to criticise—there is no list in "Erskine May"? Is Fergie still in it? Will Diana be in it in another three months?

§ Madam Speaker
Order. Like some Ministers, I need notice of that question.

§ Mr. Alan Williams (Swansea, West)
Further to the point of order raised by my hon. Friend the Member for 22 Bridgend (Mr. Griffiths), Madam Speaker. My hon. Friend understands well, as we all do, the difficulties for the Chair when there is an imbalance between the parties in the number of Welsh Members. We are worried that, with such an imbalance, most of the Welsh questions on the Order Paper are inevitably tabled by Labour Members. Therefore, if the Opposition choose not to ask a supplementary question and only the Member who has asked the main question asks a supplementary, by practice other Welsh Members are precluded from having an opportunity to ask supplementaries on questions tabled by Conservative Members.

§ Madam Speaker
In that case, the hon. Gentleman need not be worried because I move as rapidly as possible down the Order Paper in order to reach as many substantive questions as I can.