§ Queen's Recommendation having been signified—
§
Motion made, and Question proposed,
That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Boundary Commission Bill ("the Act") it is expedient to authorise the payment out of money provided by Parliament of any increase attributable to the Act in the sums payable out of money so provided under the Parliamentary Constituencies Act 1986—[Mr. Peter Lloyd.]
§ Mr. Bob Cryer (Bradford, South)It is, of course, an important means of holding the Government to account to use the 45 minutes allocated to money resolutions. Although it is not a widespread activity, it is important.
Under the terms of the money resolution, £1.5 million is allocated to the legislation. That is a significant sum of money. The Home Secretary should explain how the money is to be allocated.
Under the heading "Financial Effects of the Bill", we read the total cost of the Bill spread over three years. Under the heading "Effect of the Bill on Public Service Manpower", we find that 15 additional extra staff will be required. So clearly, some of the money will be allocated to employing extra staff. Yet there are more important priorities to which extra civil service staff should be allocated. I have received complaints about the long delays in dealing with applications for mobility allowance and attendance allowance. I should have thought that, rather than speeding the passage and application of the Bill, the £1.5 million could be spent in better ways.
Perhaps the Secretary of State will outline whether any provision has been made for assistance to local authorities either to update registers or to provide information to the boundary commission. When the boundary commission sits and seeks information, local authorities have an obligation to provide papers. Of course, that is a cost on the local authority. Local authorities are extremely short of money at present. I wonder whether the Government have allocated any part of the £1.5 million for that purpose.
It would have been far and away better to allocate the £1.5 million, or a proportion of it, to a Speaker's Conference. It would have been much cheaper to consult all the parties than to rush ahead with the £1.5 million to facilitate what is widely regarded outside as gerrymandering.
I recall the amount of money that was spent in 1983. The Secretary of State must recognise that the money resolution makes provision for any expenditure that is consequential on the passage of the Bill. The Bill will be put into effect by a large number of orders. I wonder whether the £1.5 million covers consultation on the orders and their printing and distribution. There will be one order for each new constituency. That is 651 orders. Will that cost be covered by the £1.5 million or is that an ordinary cost borne by Her Majesty's Stationery Office in any event?
Before the Minister starts uttering high-flown platitudes about objectivity and improving democracy and says that the cost is small in relation to the cost of improving democracy, let me remind him of what happened in 1983. That impinges on the cost. When the orders went before the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments, the Tory Whips told all the Tories on the Committee that they should not dare to vote against the 748 orders but merely to seek information from the relevant Department. The Committee is supposed to be one of the famed, impartial, objective Committees of the House. It is bound to seek information if it is to make a report to the House. The Tory Whips told the Tory members of that impartial Committee, "There will be no overseas trips for any of you lot." That is what happened.
§ Mr. David Harris (St. Ives)Ridiculous.
§ Mr. CryerThe hon. Gentleman says that that is ridiculous. The Secretary of State has said from the Dispatch Box that the Bill has nothing to do with party advantage and that it is some sort of democratic improvement.
§ Mr. Vivian Bendall (Ilford, North)Prove it.
§ Mr. CryerThe hon. Member for Ilford, North (Mr. Bendall) is shouting from outside the Chamber in a crude and inaccurate way and also illegally, because he is not supposed to speak from there. I seek to cut through all the platitudes and rhetoric. We know that £1.5 million is being spent to give the Tories the maximum electoral advantage. The support given to the Bill by Tory Members suggests that that is absolutely true. We have now pushed aside the tissue of hypocrisy woven by Ministers; we are now down to the nitty-gritty. An amendment should be tabled in Committee, proposing the inclusion of the £1.5 million in Tory candidates' election expenses. That should disqualify the lot of them.
§ The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Kenneth Clarke)That speech was delivered with great passion, but most of it had little to do with the money resolution. The hon. Member for Bradford, South (Mr. Cryer) greatly cheered the majority who voted for the Bill by assuring us that it would add to the number of Conservative seats in the next Parliament, but that proposition was denied even by those on his party's Front Bench; that is why our majority was so large.
Half a million pounds a year is required to finance the payment of the deputy commissioners, 15 additional staff and some computer equipment. It plainly would not have made sense for the House to give a Second Reading to such a straightforward, almost uncontroversial Bill passed by such a huge majority, and then deny it a money resolution. As ever, the hon. Member for Bradford, South is paddling his own canoe, but he is paddling it fairly purposelessly this evening.
§ Question put,
§ The House divided: Ayes 269, Noes 26.
750| Division No. 32] | [10.20 pm |
| AYES | |
| Ainsworth, Peter (East Surrey) | Baker, Nicholas (Dorset North) |
| Aitken, Jonathan | Baldry, Tony |
| Alexander, Richard | Banks, Matthew (Southport) |
| Alison, Rt Hon Michael (Selby) | Bates, Michael |
| Allason, Rupert (Torbay) | Batiste, Spencer |
| Amess, David | Bendall, Vivian |
| Ancram, Michael | Beresford, Sir Paul |
| Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham) | Biffen, Rt Hon John |
| Arnold, Sir Thomas (Hazel Grv) | Blackburn, Dr John G. |
| Ashby, David | Body, Sir Richard |
| Aspinwall, Jack | Bonsor, Sir Nicholas |
| Atkinson, David (Bour'mouth E) | Booth, Hartley |
| Atkinson, Peter (Hexham) | Boswell, Tim |
| Baker, Rt Hon K. (Mole Valley) | Bottomley, Peter (Eltham) |
| Bowden, Andrew | Hargreaves, Andrew |
| Boyson, Rt Hon Sir Rhodes | Harris, David |
| Brandreth, Gyles | Haselhurst, Alan |
| Brazier, Julian | Hawkins, Nicholas |
| Bright, Graham | Hawksley, Warren |
| Brown, M. (Brigg & Cl'thorpes) | Hayes, Jerry |
| Browning, Mrs. Angela | Heald, Oliver |
| Bruce, Ian (S Dorset) | Heathcoat-Amory, David |
| Burns, Simon | Hendry, Charles |
| Burt, Alistair | Hicks, Robert |
| Butcher, John | Hill, James (Southampton Test) |
| Butler, Peter | Horam, John |
| Butterfill, John | Hordern, Sir Peter |
| Carlisle, Kenneth (Lincoln) | Howarth, Alan (Strat'rd-on-A) |
| Carrington, Matthew | Howell, Rt Hon David (G'dford) |
| Carttiss, Michael | Hughes Robert G. (Harrow W) |
| Cash, William | Hunt, Rt Hon David (Wirral W) |
| Chaplin, Mrs Judith | Hunt, Sir John (Ravensbourne) |
| Chapman, Sydney | Hunter, Andrew |
| Clappison, James | Jack, Michael |
| Clarke, Rt Hon Kenneth (Ruclif) | Jackson, Robert (Wantage) |
| Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey | Jenkin, Bernard |
| Coe, Sebastian | Johnson Smith, Sir Geoffrey |
| Congdon, David | Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N) |
| Conway, Derek | Jones, Robert B. (W H'f'rdshire) |
| Coombs, Anthony (Wyre For'st) | Jopling, Rt Hon Michael |
| Coombs, Simon (Swindon) | Kellett-Bowman, Dame Elaine |
| Cope, Rt Hon Sir John | Key, Robert |
| Couchman, James | Kilfedder, Sir James |
| Cran, James | King, Rt Hon Tom |
| Currie, Mrs Edwina (S D'by'ire) | Kirkhope, Timothy |
| Davies, Quentin (Stamford) | Knapman, Roger |
| Davis, David (Boothferry) | Knight, Mrs Angela (Erewash) |
| Deva, Nirj Joseph | Knight, Greg (Derby N) |
| Devlin, Tim | Knight, Dame Jill (Bir'm E'st'n) |
| Dorrell, Stephen | Knox, David |
| Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James | Kynoch, George (Kincardine) |
| Dover, Den | Lait, Mrs Jacqui |
| Duncan, Alan | Lamont, Rt Hon Norman |
| Duncan-Smith, Iain | Lang, Rt Hon Ian |
| Dunn, Bob | Lawrence, Sir Ivan |
| Durant, Sir Anthony | Legg, Barry |
| Dykes, Hugh | Leigh, Edward |
| Eggar, Tim | Lennox-Boyd, Hon Mark |
| Elletson, Harold | Lester, Jim (Broxtowe) |
| Evans, David (Welwyn Hatfield) | Lidington, David |
| Evans, Jonathan (Brecon) | Lilley, Rt Hon Peter |
| Evans, Nigel (Ribble Valley) | Lloyd, Peter (Fareham) |
| Evans, Roger (Monmouth) | Lord, Michael |
| Evennett, David | Luff, Peter |
| Faber, David | Lyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas |
| Fabricant, Michael | MacGregor, Rt Hon John |
| Fairbairn, Sir Nicholas | MacKay, Andrew |
| Fenner, Dame Peggy | Maclean, David |
| Field, Barry (Isle of Wight) | McLoughlin, Patrick |
| Fishburn, John Dudley | McNair-Wilson, Sir Patrick |
| Forman, Nigel | Madel, David |
| Forsyth, Michael (Stirling) | Maitland, Lady Olga |
| Forth, Eric | Malone, Gerald |
| Fowler, Rt Hon Sir Norman | Mans, Keith |
| Fox, Dr Liam (Woodspring) | Marlow, Tony |
| Fox, Sir Marcus (Shipley) | Marshall, John (Hendon S) |
| Freeman, Roger | Martin, David (Portsmouth S) |
| French, Douglas | Mawhinney, Dr Brian |
| Fry, Peter | Mayhew, Rt Hon Sir Patrick |
| Gale, Roger | Mellor, Rt Hon David |
| Gallie, Phil | Merchant, Piers |
| Garnier, Edward | Milligan, Stephen |
| Gill, Christopher | Mills, Iain |
| Gillan, Ms Cheryl | Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling) |
| Goodson-Wickes, Dr Charles | Mitchell, Sir David (Hants NW) |
| Gorman, Mrs Teresa | Moate, Roger |
| Gorst, John | Monro, Sir Hector |
| Greenway, Harry (Ealing N) | Montgomery, Sir Fergus |
| Greenway, John (Ryedale) | Moss, Malcolm |
| Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth, N) | Nelson, Anthony |
| Hague, William | Neubert, Sir Michael |
| Hamilton, Neil (Tatton) | Nicholls, Patrick |
| Hampson, Dr Keith | Nicholson, David (Taunton) |
| Hannam, Sir John | Nicholson, Emma (Devon West) |
| Norris, Steve | Stewart, Allan |
| Oppenheim, Phillip | Streeter, Gary |
| Ottaway, Richard | Sumberg, David |
| Page, Richard | Sweeney, Walter |
| Paice, James | Sykes, John |
| Patnick, Irvine | Taylor, Ian (Esher) |
| Patten, Rt Hon John | Taylor, John M. (Solihull) |
| Pawsey, James | Taylor, Sir Teddy (Southend, E) |
| Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth | Thomason, Roy |
| Pickles, Eric | Thompson, Patrick (Norwich N) |
| Porter, David (Waveney) | Thornton, Sir Malcolm |
| Portillo, Rt Hon Michael | Thurnham, Peter |
| Powell, William (Corby) | Townend, John (Bridlington) |
| Renton, Rt Hon Tim | Townsend, Cyril D. (Bexl'yh'th) |
| Richards, Rod | Tredinnick, David |
| Riddick, Graham | Trend, Michael |
| Rifkind, Rt Hon. Malcolm | Trotter, Neville |
| Robathan, Andrew | Twinn, Dr Ian |
| Roberts, Rt Hon Sir Wyn | Vaughan, Sir Gerard |
| Robertson, Raymond (Ab'd'n S) | Waller, Gary |
| Robinson, Mark (Somerton) | Wardle, Charles (Bexhill) |
| Roe, Mrs Marion (Broxbourne) | Waterson, Nigel |
| Rowe, Andrew (Mid Kent) | Watts, John |
| Ryder, Rt Hon Richard | Wells, Bowen |
| Sackville, Tom | Wheeler, Sir John |
| Scott, Rt Hon Nicholas | Whitney, Ray |
| Shaw, David (Dover) | Whittingdale, John |
| Shaw, Sir Giles (Pudsey) | Widdecombe, Ann |
| Shephard, Rt Hon Gillian | Wiggin, Jerry |
| Shepherd, Colin (Hereford) | Wilkinson, John |
| Shersby, Michael | Willetts, David |
| Sims, Roger | Wilshire, David |
| Skeet, Sir Trevor | Winterton, Mrs Ann (Congleton) |
| Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield) | Winterton, Nicholas (Macc'f'ld) |
| Spencer, Sir Derek | Wolfson, Mark |
| Spicer, Sir James (W Dorset) | Wood, Timothy |
| Spink, Dr Robert | Yeo, Tim |
| Spring, Richard | Young, Sir George (Acton) |
| Sproat, Iain | |
| Squire, Robin (Hornchurch) | Tellers for the Ayes: |
| Stanley, Rt Hon Sir John | Mr. David Lightbown and |
| Stephen, Michael | Mr. James Arbuthnot. |
| Stern, Michael |
| NOES | |
| Alton, David | Loyden, Eddie |
| Banks, Tony (Newham NW) | Lynne, Ms Liz |
| Caborn, Richard | McCartney, Ian |
| Campbell, Menzies (Fife NE) | Mahon, Alice |
| Carlile, Alexander (Montgomry) | Parry, Robert |
| Foster, Donald (Bath) | Patchett, Terry |
| Gordon, Mildred | Pickthall, Colin |
| Hall, Mike | Skinner, Dennis |
| Heppell, John | Taylor, Matthew (Truro) |
| Hood, Jimmy | Tipping, Paddy |
| Hutton, John | Winnick, David |
| Jones, Nigel (Cheltenham) | |
| Kennedy, Ms Jane (L'p'l Br'g'n) | Tellers for the Noes: |
| Kilfoyle, Peter | Mr. Bob Cryer and |
| Kirkwood, Archy | Mr. Harry Barnes. |
§ Question accordingly agreed to.
§
Resolved,
That for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Boundary Commissions Bill ("the Act") it is expedient to authorise the payment out of money provided by Parliament of any increase attributable to the Act in the sums payable out of money so provided under the Parliamentary Constituencies Act 1986.