Points of Order (Hansard, 10 June 1992)

Several Hon. Members
On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

§ Madam Speaker
One at a time.

§ Mr. Peter Bottomley (Eltham)
On a point of order, Madam Speaker. I rise briefly to raise two linked points of order. One is on hybridity and the other is on judicial cases before the courts. The second one, to which reference is made on page 378 of "Erskine May", is about whether there is a substantial risk that there will be prejudice to the trial of a case. There is authority for saying that legislation can overrule cases which bodies may bring before the courts, especially the civil courts. I should be grateful for guidance on how that might affect clause 52 of the Finance Bill.
The second point of order is about hybridity, to which reference is made on pages 519 to 521 of "Erskine May". Sir Robin Maxwell-Hyslop referred to it in the 1975–76 Session as reported in Hansard, in volume 912, column 299. "Erskine May" says: it is not easy to describe generally the ground on which such objections have been sustained or over-ruled.
My question to you, Madam Speaker, is whether there is a way, other than on the Floor of the House, in which clause 52 of the Finance Bill in so far as it refers to the building societies should be referred to the examiners. If that is a question on which you require notice, I can happily wait until tomorrow.

§ Madam Speaker
The hon. Gentleman should talk to the Public Bill Office about the matter. But I can tell him that the Bill to which he refers has been examined and it is not a hybrid Bill.
The sub judice rule does not apply to proceedings on Bills in Committee. What is in order on clause 52 of the Finance Bill is a matter for the Chairman of the Standing Committee to which it has been referred.

§ Mr. Tam Dalyell (Linlithgow)
On a point of order, Madam Speaker. It will be within the recollection of the House that when he answered Question 18 the hon. Member for Wiltshire, North (Mr. Needham) most unusually gave expression to a personal opinion as a Minister. I do not doubt that it was strongly felt—

§ Madam Speaker
Order. The hon. Gentleman has excellent parliamentary manners and has been here a long time. He should not try an extension of Question Time on me. He seeks a further explanation. That should not be addressed to the Chair. I have heard enough of that and I have answered the hon. Gentleman correctly.

§ Mr. Graham Riddick (Colne Valley)
On a point of order, Madam Speaker. You will remember that yesterday the hon. Member for Sheffield, Hillsborough (Mrs. Jackson) raised a point of order on a matter which involved my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Hallam (Mr. Patnick). I gave the hon. Lady notice that I intended to raise the matter now. I seek your guidance. Before a packed House and on live television, the hon. Lady made allegations about my hon. Friend, suggesting that my hon. Friend had acted improperly. My hon. Friend wrote to the hon. Member for Hillsborough denying the allegations 308 that she made in the House yesterday afternoon, and totally refuting the claim that my hon. Friend presented a petition at No. 10 Downing street.

§ Madam Speaker
Order. Is that a point of order for me?

§ Mr. Riddick
It is indeed. It is important that the record be put straight, and I want to ask you, Madam Speaker, how we can prevent such abuse of the procedures of the House.

Several Hon. Members
rose—

§ Madam Speaker
Order. I have the perfect answer—right hon. and hon. Members can behave in a courteous and civilised way to one another.

§ Mr. Riddick
rose—

§ Madam Speaker
Order. I heard the hon. Gentleman's point of order, and it is on the record. I will not take any retrospective points of order. That matter is finished with.

§ Mr. Paul Flynn (Newport, West)
On a point of order, Madam Speaker. I appeal to you as the defender of the rights of Back Benchers. In a letter of 19 April, I raised a certain matter with the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, and did so again in questions to him and to other Secretaries of State on 3 February, 18 February, 14 May, 18 May, 19 May, and 22 May. Answering the first question on the Order Paper today, the Minister for Trade claimed that he was ignorant of the matters in question, and contemptuously gave me his telephone number—suggesting that I had not carried out my job in raising the matter. Will you, Madam Speaker, instruct Ministers that when right hon. and hon. Members raise intelligent questions, they should receive serious answers?

§ Madam Speaker
Ministers are responsible for the answers that they give, and that matter is not for the Chair.

Several Hon. Members
rose—

§ Madam Speaker
Is there another point of order. Yes —I thought as much. Mr. Skinner.

§ Mr. Dennis Skinner (Bolsover)
On a point of order, Madam Speaker. At the end of the day, you, Madam Speaker, have something to do with questions to Ministers, because you decide whether or not they are in order. We could be placed in some difficulty in the near future because, according to some reports, at least two Cabinet Ministers—the Secretary of State for Social Security and the Chief Secretary to the Treasury—are holding secret meetings. May we know the precise moment that they get the sack so that we may table our questions to the correct Minister? We want to know who is to answer them. May we be informed?

§ Madam Speaker
I am sure that the hon. Gentleman is always most capable of addressing his questions to the correct Minister.

§ Mr. Derek Enright (Hemsworth)
On a point of order, Madam Speaker. On much the same subject—[HoN. MEMBERS: "It has been answered."] It is a totally new point of order.

§ Madam Speaker
Then I need to hear it very rapidly.

§ Mr. Enright
At the beginning of May, I tabled a written question to the President of the Board of Trade. By 309 19 May, the right hon. Gentleman replied that he would make an announcement shortly. Up to the present, no such announcement has been made. Is that not an abuse of the House?

§ Madam Speaker
I hardly think that matter is for the Chair. It is for Ministers to answer when questions are put to them.