§ 13. Sir Fergus MontgomeryTo ask the Secretary of State for Social Security how many (a) men and (b) women pay national insurance contributions at the upper earnings limit.
§ Mr. JackOn average, 3 million men and nearly 500,000 women who are employed or self-employed will pay national insurance contributions at the upper limit during 1991–92.
§ Sir Fergus MontgomeryDoes my hon. Friend agree that any proposal to abolish the upper limit on national insurance contributions would mean that millions of people who could never remotely be regarded as rich would pay a great deal more in contributions and get nothing extra in benefits?
§ Mr. JackMy hon. Friend raises an interesting point. It is interesting that he talks of people getting nothing for their additional contributions in the very week when the hon. Member for Oldham, West (Mr. Meacher) writes an article in a magazine in praise of the contributory principle—indeed, in praise of Beveridge in this the 50th anniversary of his excellent proposals.
§ Mr. MeacherThe hon. Gentleman is very efficient.
§ Mr. JackI am glad that the hon. Gentleman says that I am very efficient because that is what we in the Department of Social Security strive to be.
We now know that the Opposition's approach to national insurance would mean a something-for-nothing society. My hon. Friend points to a further interesting fact: although the figures that I gave were 100 per cent. correct, I would estimate that during five years of any Parliament as we see earnings increase perhaps an additional 500,000 people would be swept into this disreputable proposal from the Labour Benches.
§ Mr. Peter BottomleyHas my hon. Friend considered consulting people such as members of the Secondary Heads Association to see whether all the heads of comprehensive schoools in my constituency would relish the idea of paying an extra 9 per cent. from their earnings, if the upper limit were removed? While he is at it, he might consult about increased levels of taxation, because secondary heads will not like that.
§ Mr. JackI should be delighted if my hon. Friend's constituents would care to drop me a note with information on their individual salaries. I could do a little costing exercise for them. I am sure that they, like senior nurses, managers, middle managers and other experienced teachers, will all think carefully about what my hon. Friend the Member for Altrincham and Sale (Sir F. Montgomery) has said. He has put before the House an illustration of how the Labour party wants to increase the cost of national insurance. Even under the old Labour scheme somebody on £130 a week would pay £26 in national insurance—employers and employees contributions combined—whereas under the Conservative proposals somebody on the same earnings would pay only £19.24. We will stick by our national insurance arrangements.