Commercial Courts (Hansard, 17 December 1992)

§ Mr. Richard Ottaway (Croydon, South)
When so many hon. Members turned up in the Chamber at 11.45 am, I thought for a glorious moment—[Interruption.]

§ Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Michael Morris)
Order. I appeal to hon. Members to recognise that what they are doing by standing before the Mace does not bring credit on any part of the United Kingdom. I have listened to a large number of points of order—[Interruption.] Order. I hope that those hon. Members who are trying to prevent democracy at work—[Interruption.] Order. Hon. Members are directly challenging the Chair—[Interruption.] Order. It is not a matter of politics any more—[Interruption.] Order. I suspend the sitting for five minutes.

§ Madam Speaker
I ask hon. Members who are standing before the Mace to resume their seats.

§ Mr. Ernie Ross (Dundee, West)
We do not in any way ignore your presence in the Chamber, Madam Speaker, nor did we intend to insult you or your deputies. We believe that we are entitled to a statement from the Leader of the House, who we know is in the building.

§ Madam Speaker
Order. Hon. Members normally speak from their seats. I ask hon. Members to resume their seats. I will hear what the hon. Member for Dundee, West (Mr. Ross) has to say if hon. Members will now resume their seats. I cannot hear while hon. Members are standing at the Mace.

§ Mr. Ross
I want to make it quite clear that we did not intend to challenge your presence through your deputy while Mr. Deputy Speaker was in the Chair.
My hon. Friends on the Front Bench and my Back-Bench colleagues have raised a succession of points of order in response to the outrageous decision of the Secretary of State for Scotland, who is in the building, who answered questions yesterday afternoon and was present during the five-hour debate on another piece of legislation.
We noticed that the hon. Member for Ayr (Mr. Gallie) had a written question on the Order Paper. We woke up this morning to excited telephone calls from our constituents who told us that hospitals in their areas were to be given trust status in a written announcement at 3.30 this afternoon. They demanded that we do something about that. That is why we are here. We could not answer their questions, so we are here to find out what is happening.
We are simply asking for a statement. If the Scottish Office Minister responsible is not present, we know that the Leader of the House is here as we have seen him. We want him to make a statement about the decision of the Secretary of State for Scotland to grant trust status to a number of hospitals in Scotland.
I am sure that Mr. Deputy Speaker reported to you everything that has happened this morning. It is not just 586 today's announcement; it is much more worrying that an announcement is to be made next week while the House is in recess. That is even more insulting, given the rules that you, Madam Speaker, and your predecessor have made about Ministers making press statements or announcements by way of press statements instead of coming to the House.

§ Madam Speaker
I have been listening for most of the morning to the points of order, and the hon. Member for Dundee, West (Mr. Ross) has made the position quite clear to me once more. I understand that negotiations are taking place outside to see whether a statement can be made before the House rises today. That being the case, hon. Members should allow the debate to take place, as we always do in this House.

Several Hon. Members
rose—

§ Madam Speaker
Order. There can be no more points of order on this subject. We must now allow the debate to take place.

Several Hon. Members
rose—

§ Madam Speaker
Order. I have heard all the points of order and I have been listening all morning. Hon. Members must now wait to see whether a statement by a Minister will be made later today. I believe that the hon. Member for Croydon, South (Mr. Ottaway) has the Floor.

§ Mr. John Home Robertson (East Lothian)
On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

§ Madam Speaker
Order. I heard the point of order from the hon. Member for Dundee, West (Mr. Ross), who has made the matter quite clear on behalf of most of the hon. Members who are in the Chamber. I have been listening all morning and we must now proceed with our debate. I call Mr. Ottaway.

§ Mr. Dennis Skinner (Bolsover)
On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

§ Madam Speaker
Order. I have heard all the points of order that are necessary. Freedom of speech is allowed for everyone in this House. I have heard points of order from hon. Members who have been raising them all morning. I take them very seriously, but the debate must now proceed. Back Benchers have a right to make themselves heard.

Several Hon. Members
rose—

§ Madam Speaker
Order. I believe that the hon. Member for Glasgow, Maryhill (Mrs. Fyfe) is seeking to raise a point of order from the Opposition Front Bench. I will listen to that point of order, which will be the final point of order.

§ Mrs. Maria Fyfe (Glasgow, Maryhill)
I thank you for your consideration, Madam Speaker. Can you clarify further what you said a moment ago when you said that you believed that negotiations were continuing? We understood just a few minutes ago that there was to be no ministerial statement. Is it your understanding that negotiations are still continuing?

§ Madam Speaker
I understood from the Annunciator that negotiations were taking place. Nobody has informed me other than that. Therefore, until I know, I think that the debate must be allowed to take place.

Several Hon. Members
rose—

§ Madam Speaker
Order. I have heard enough points of order. I call Mr. Ottaway.

§ Mr. Home Robertson
On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

§ Madam Speaker
Order. The hon. Gentleman has already raised a point of order. I have dealt with all the points of order that are necessary. We must wait until I, as Speaker, am told whether a statement is to be made. Hon. Members must do likewise.

§ Mr. Ottaway
In drawing attention to delays in the commercial courts, I shall initially declare an interest as a solicitor and a director of a company which from time to time has reason to use the commercial court.

§ Mr. Home Robertson
On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

§ Madam Speaker
Order. I have to protect what is known as the Royal Assent and therefore I shall suspend the House until 3 o'clock.