§ 8. Mr. David MarshallTo ask the Secretary of State for Scotland, pursuant to his answer of 26 October, Official Report, column 530, what consultations he proposes to make on legislative proposals relating to the carrying and possession of knives and similar offensive weapons; and if he will make a statement.
§ Lord James Douglas-HamiltonMy right hon. Friend will consult publicly in the new year on proposals to change the law in relation to the carrying and possession of knives. In light of the consultations, we shall introduce measures for consideration by the House at the first available opportunity.
§ Mr. MarshallWe have heard all this before, time after time. Are not murders at record levels in Scotland this year? Is it not the case that violent criminals are being let out of prison for Christmas, on condition that they do not take drink or drugs? Have not the Tory Government simply gone soft on law and order? For some years, some of us have been trying to get the Government to take action against violence on our streets. How many more people have to be mugged, maimed, slashed, stabbed or murdered before the Government will do something about this ever-growing menace to society?
§ Lord James Douglas-HamiltonWhy is it that Strathclyde police are 181 officers under strength? It is because Strathclyde regional council has not employed its 424 full complement. The hon. Gentleman should be making strong representations about that. I know that Strathclyde has increased the number of its police officers, but it is still 181 under strength.
As for the crime clear-up rate, in 1988 it was 160,000 and in 1991 it was 184,000—a considerable police achievement. Of course I am concerned about the rising crime rate—it has been rising for the past 30 years—but police operations, such as Operation Dove in Paisley, have been extremely successful in helping to produce an overall reduction in crime. I strongly recommend similar schemes to police officers in other areas.
§ Sir Nicholas FairbairnMay I remind my hon. Friend that the draconian sentences passed on the razor slashers in Glasgow—the razors in question were not lethal weapons—caused the new fancy for the knife, which is lethal? So we must be cautious on this matter. As one who carries a gun himself, even though it is rather small, I know that there are worse things in the criminal law than simple assault—for instance, fraud perpetrated at public expense in Monklands. If that is not investigated by the Lord Advocate, it should be—
§ Madam SpeakerOrder. That is wholly irrelevant to the question, as the hon. and learned Gentleman knows.
§ Lord James Douglas-HamiltonI recall my hon. and learned Friend's gun, because he once let it off in the High Court, causing a considerable disturbance, and it was with great relief that it was discovered to have been only my hon. and learned Friend letting off a very small cap gun.
The maximum penalty for carrying an offensive weapon is two years in prison, but for the use of such weapons the penalty can be an unlimited fine or life imprisonment. Both the Lord Justice-General and the Lord Justice-Clerk have made it extremely clear that such offences will be regarded as very serious and will be severely dealt with.
§ Mr. McFallWhat a pathetic response from the party which is supposed to be the custodian of law and order! Does not the Minister realise that there was a staggering increase of 40 per cent. in crimes involving offensive weapons in Scotland last year? Is it not amazing that in Scotland, unlike England and Wales, it is not an offence to carry an offensive weapon? The ready availability of these weapons causes immense concern. I illustrate that point by referring the Minister to the Sunday Times of 22 November in which an advertisement for a mail order magazine featured such murderous weapons as the Bowie knife—a 7 in stainless steel blad with a serrated edge. Does not that show that this activity can be described as trading in death? The police and public to whom I speak ask whether the Government have given up on crime, and if they have not, when they will start doing something about it.
§ Lord James Douglas-HamiltonI remind the hon. Gentleman that when we first brought in police powers of search the Labour party voted against them in the House. If a police officer has reasonable grounds for suspecting that a person is carrying an offensive weapon he may search that person without a warrant under section 4 of the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act 1980. We have said that we will take forward consultations speedily and legislate at the first available opportunity. Our commitment to law and order remains stronger than ever.