§ 2. Mr. AmessTo ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what recent representations he has received for Scottish independence.
§ The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. Ian Lang)Since the general election I have received 22 representations in favour of independence for Scotland. I have received hundreds in support of the maintenance of the Union.
§ Mr. AmessIs my right hon. Friend aware that many Scottish people live in Basildon? They are proud to be Scottish and pleased to live in Basildon. Is my right hon. Friend further aware that the overwhelming majority of them are totally opposed to the break-up of the United Kingdom, and does he agree with them?
§ Mr. LangI am glad to be able to reassure my hon. Friend that the overwhelming majority of the people of Scotland are also resistant to the break-up of the United Kingdom. The only political party offering the break-up of the United Kingdom saw its representation in the House reduced by 40 per cent. at the general election, when I was delighted to see my hon. Friend re-elected as the Member for Basildon.
§ Mr. McAllionIs the Secretary of State aware that although the democratic opposition to Tory Government in Scotland may be divided on the issue of indpendence, it is absolutely united behind the principle that Scotland should decide for itself what its views on independence are? Who does the Secretary of State think is more representative of Scottish opinion—the 25,000 Scots from every part of the country who gathered in Edinburgh last Saturday to demand a multi-option referendum, or the ragbag of no-hopers on the Conservative Back Benches?
§ Mr. LangIf the hon. Gentleman wants to see a ragbag, he should look at the range of organisations with different opinions that marched in the demonstration on Saturday. They could not even reach the end of the march without disagreeing and falling out among themselves.
§ Sir Nicholas FairbairnDoes my right hon. Friend appreciate that Scotland's greatest benefit is that it is the only country on earth which does not have the misfortune to have a Government? However, Scotland has the good fortune to have control over its affairs and its heritage—for which my right hon. Friend is so appreciated. Will he ensure that when the English work out whether they can buy tea or shortbread on Sundays, under their stupid Shops Act 1950, section 4 of the 1950 Act is never applied to Scotland and that our law remains as free as it is?
§ Mr. LangMy hon. and learned Friend is right to draw attention to the distinctive features of legislation affecting Scotland, which are safeguarded by arrangements in this Parliament. Not for the first time, Scotland is giving examples from which England can benefit.
§ Mr. WallaceDoes the Secretary of State accept that while 78 per cent. of the Scottish people rejected independence on 9 April, 75 per cent. were not satisfied with the status quo and wanted a Scottish Parliament? Given that the Secretary of State, in his speech to the Monday club at the Conservative party conference, accepted the nationhood of Scotland, how does he envisage Scotland being able to implement the democratic wish of the Scottish people if he and his colleagues in Government refuse to accept that wish?
§ Mr. LangThe vast majority of people voting in the last general election supported parties which are nominally committed to the maintenance of the Union of the United Kingdom. Within that United Kingdom and its Parliament, it is possible to cater for the distinctive needs of the different parts of the Union. That is what already happens in Parliament, and that is what we are considering to find out whether further changes can be made to improve arrangements for Scottish business at Westminster.
§ Mr. Ian BruceWhat representations has my right hon. Friend received from the dockyard workers at Rosyth about an independent Scotland? If that were to come about, what effect do they think that it would have on their jobs?
§ Mr. LangI have had no such representations, but, in that matter as in so many others, Scotland's benefits derive to a large extent from our membership of this United Kingdom.
§ Mr. SalmondThe Secretary of State must be aware, even if Basildon man is not, that the latest signs are that independence is the leading option and that it is twice as popular as his option—the status quo. In the light of Saturday's march and rally, does the Secretary of State still believe what he has told us for the past six months—that no one is interested in the Scottish question? On Saturday, 25,000 people demonstrated for freedom and democracy in the streets of our capital city. When will he take stock of that? If the governor-general were to announce a rally in March in favour of the discredited Union, would any Scot bother to turn up—or would he have to bus them in from Basildon?
§ Mr. LangI have already pointed out that the march last Saturday contained elements that conflict directly with each other in their views of the future of Scotland. The hon. Gentleman asks who is interested in the Scottish question. I am interested in it. That is why I and my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister are taking stock. That is why we are considering proposals to change the arrangements whereby Scottish business is handled and to find other ways in which Scottish interests can be better represented within this Westminster Parliament.
§ Mr. CanavanWhen did the Scottish Tory party manage to get 25,000 Scots marching for anything? The Secretary of State is trying to derive some comfort from the fact that there are honest differences of opinion among the people of Scotland on the exact powers that a Scottish Parliament should have. Why is he so afraid to hold a referendum and let the people decide? Is it because he knows that the overwhelming majority would reject the status quo?
§ Mr. LangThe Scottish Conservative party is pursuing its objectives through democratic and parliamentary means, and it was the only party in Scotland to increase both its vote and its share of the seats at the last general election.