NHS Trusts (Hansard, 13 November 1991)

§ 12. Mr. Malcolm Bruce
To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the future of NHS trusts.

§ 15. Mr. McAvoy
To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has had supporting the principle of hospitals becoming trusts outside the national health service; and if he will make a statement.

§ Mr. Lang
NHS trusts form an important part of the national health service, providing services to patients free at the point of delivery. I am at present considering applications for trust status from three Scottish hospitals.

§ Mr. Bruce
Does the Secretary of State accept that, as my hon. Friend the Member for Kincardine and Deeside (Mr. Stephen)—whom I am pleased to welcome to the House—will confirm, 100 per cent. of those who voted in the Kincardine and Deeside by-election voted against the opt-out of Foresterhill? Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that it would be contrary to the interests of patient care to force through a proposal that is opposed by consultants, nursing staff, general practitioners, patients and the general public? Will he now listen to the people of Scotland, abandon the current policy and pursue policies that have the support of the people?

§ Mr. Lang
On behalf of my hon. Friends, I am happy to welcome the hon. Member for Kincardine and Deeside (Mr. Stephen) to the House, and to congratulate him on his success in the by-election. We look forward to his participation in our affairs, and wish him a fulfilling time during his time in the House—however long or short that may be.
I have already spelt out in great detail the criteria that I shall apply when considering Foresterhill's application for trust status. It is a complex and detailed process, which deserves such treatment. Of course I take account of feeling in the area; but, as I said earlier, I also take account of the way in which feeling has been influenced by the misleading statements that have been put about over recent months.
I have no doubt that trust status for hospitals can be an enormous success, as it has proved to be south of the border. It can create the opportunity for local management to bring the delivery of health care closer to the people whom it serves, and give it freedom to run its own affairs. I shall take careful account of all aspects of the application before reaching a decision.

§ Mr. McAvoy
I am surprised at the remarks of the hon. Member for Gordon (Mr. Bruce). In my constituency the Rutherglen Liberal Democrats supported the privatisation of care for the elderly.
When will the dogmatic Secretary of State for Scotland realise that the people of Scotland see NHS trusts as the thin edge of the wedge for privatisation of the health service, and that they do not want them?

§ Mr. Lang
Far from being dogmatic, our objective is to achieve the best possible delivery of health care through a health service that continues to be free at the point of delivery to patients. There is mounting evidence from south of the border that trust status has helped the hospitals that have achieved it to improve their delivery of health care and to expand the services that they can offer. If that is the case I imagine that more Scots will wish to take advantage of trust status. I read with interest in today's edition of The Courier and Advertiser, Dundee that the Dundee royal infirmary and Kings Cross hospital are beginning to consider the possibility of applying.

§ Mr. John Marshall
Will my right hon. Friend confirm to those who indulge in unnecessary and unwarranted smear campaigns that NHS trust hospitals are treating 10 per cent. more patients than were being treated a year ago? Will not people in Scotland quickly benefit from having several NHS trust hospitals?

§ Mr. Lang
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his view of the position south of the border. I was interested to see that the mid-Cheshire hospitals are increasing their eye 1073 services by up to 50 per cent., that for Manchester central hospitals a day-care centre for cataract surgery has opened, and that in south Devon 67 new posts are to be created. Plainly, many of the hospitals south of the border that have applied for trust status are making considerable advances in the delivery of patient care.

§ Mr. Dewar
The right hon. Gentleman has said that in reaching his decision he would have to take account of the quality of the representations. Does he think that such an argument will help him, given that the objections, come from the doctors, nurses and auxiliaries, who are themselves the health of the hospital, and who will be responsible for its continuing health? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the theory that he would be happy to drop the whole unhappy business, but that his Minister responsible for health takes a different view? Is it right that the future of the hospitals should depend on an undignified ideological tug-of-war in the Scottish Office bunker? When will the right hon. Gentleman summon up the courage to make a decision on the applications?

§ Mr. Lang
The hon. Gentleman overlooks the fact that the applications originate from the people who run the hospitals, because of the advantages that are to be had, through local management, for local people. That must be borne in mind. There is nothing doctrinaire about our approach to the matter. We are concerned to continue to build on our magnificent record in improving the delivery of health care. As I have said, I shall consider each application on its merits and according to the criteria. I shall make an announcement as soon as I reach a decision.