Asylum

HC Deb 07 November 1991 vol 198 cc560-1

6. Mr. Corbyn

To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what representations he has received concerning the access to advice of asylum seekers.

Mr. Peter Lloyd

Following my right hon. Friend's statement about asylum on 2 July, we have received about 100 letters from hon. Members and about 750 from members of the public and interested organisations. Most have included comments on the availability of advice for asylum seekers.

Mr. Corbyn

Will the Minister concede that the proposal in the Asylum Bill removes the right of people seeking political asylum to have access to green form advice? Is he aware that that proposal has been met with horror by advice agencies, legal aid practices and members of the United Kingdom Immigrants Advisory Service? Should not he announce that he will withdraw those parts of the Bill and give people seeking political asylum the same rights to legal advice as anyone else would have, rather than introduce this appalling system under which they will not have the same equality before the law?

Mr. Lloyd

The hon. Gentleman is quite mistaken. There are no such proposals in the Bill and we never suggested that there should be. We have said that immigration and asylum cases are unique in that the Government and the United Nations fund a free, professional legal advice and representation service in the shape of UKIAS and the Government fund free solicitors' advice through the green form. With the extension of appeal rights to all asylum seekers, it is not unreasonable to propose—as the Lord Chancellor and my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary propose—that this anomalous double provision should end and that increased resources for advice should be concentrated on UKIAS, especially as the service has a better record of winning cases than solicitors and is more cost effective.

Mr. Nicholls

It is clear to solicitors and to many other people that our present asylum procedures are being abused. That should stop. Does my hon. Friend agree that it does the cause of racial integration no good at all that our procedures should be abused? Does he reject the comments that we have heard from the Opposition which have much more to do with their courting votes than with human rights?

Mr. Lloyd

Of course asylum procedures should not be abused. Those who are making asylum claims should have access to free professional legal advice, as they want it. We propose to deal with abuses and to ensure that asylum seekers have the free legal advice that they need.

Mr. Darling

Does the Minister accept that UKIAS is not capable of providing the same level of professional advice as can presently be provided under the legal aid system? Does he accept that individuals should have the right to choose representation which represents the best value for money and that there is no saving to the Treasury under his proposals? Will he explain why he wrote to UKIAS on 7 October threatening that unless it accepted the Government's proposals he would withdraw its funding or curtail it completely?

Mr. Lloyd

What I said to UKIAS—I have had two meetings with the organisation and written to it—is that the availability of green form aid is finally a matter for the Government and Parliament, not for UKIAS. I also said that as we are increasing UKIAS's funding and its ability to represent and advise, if it was unwilling to advise those seeking advice on asylum, it called into question whether the funding for advice, not representation, should go to UKIAS. There is an alternative. We could fund all advice through the green form, but that would not be especially helpful to asylum seekers, as UKIAS has a better record of success in giving advice and making representations to adjudicators and tribunals.

Mr. Lawrence

What proportion of asylum seekers come into this country on visitors' permits and then decide that they are in fear of persecution just as their permits come to an end? Is not it easy to give those people advice?

Mr. Lloyd

Yes. About three quarters of asylum claimants are already in the country, many of them legitimately as students or visitors and some of them illegitimately, as they have entered the country illegally. Each case needs to be considered on its merits. There can be reasons why people make a claim for asylum after they have been here for some time and we consider all cases properly. We believe that every asylum seeker, whether in-country or arriving at the ports, should have access to good free legal advice.