§ Mr. Bob Dunn (Dartford)I beg to move,
That leave be given to bring in a Bill to abolish Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Schools and to transfer its functions and responsibilities to the Audit Commission; and for connected purposes.The House will be well aware that the history of education since the 19th century has run alongside the development of Her Majesty's inspectorate of schools. For more than 150 years the inspectorate has sought to give impartial and independent advice to successive Department of Education and Science Ministers on changes, projects, policies and developments in maintained education. Throughout that period its impartial and independent role has been carried out satisfactorily. It is no coincidence that the only area of the education service that has gone without reform is the inspectorate. Largely, its role continues to be one of advice and caution in addition to publishing reports and giving advice to successive Ministers.Although the inspectorate has become impartial and independent, it has become increasingly irrelevant to the means by which modern education is measured and adjudicated upon as a result of the changes that have taken place in the service. Indeed, it has become a self-perpetuating oligarchy whose function has been to give generalised statements on the position of maintained education in such a way as to cause doubt and concern without providing the means by which improvement can be made. For example, the inspectorate says that a third of our children could do better in a state school—that in itself is a statement of disruption—without providing the means by which improvements could be made.
Every activity that we have undertaken in the past 10 years has been designed to take responsibility down the line to individual schools and to require schools to be more open about the type of education, the quality of education and the standard of education that is reached within them. Yet the one arm of activity open to government is still dealing in a generalised and unfocused way with the provision of activity in the state system.
The House might have seen an answer to a written question tabled by me from the Minister of State, Department of Education and Science on 16 May. I asked
the Secretary of State for Education and Science what was the number of (a) school-related and (b) non school-related reports published by Her Majesty's inspectorate in each of the last two years …".The Minister's answer was:In 1988–89, 403 inspection reports were published of which 231 were related to schools. In 1989–90, 358 reports were published, of which 144 were school-related."—[Official Report, 16 May 1991; Vol. 191, c. 222.]While accepting that those that relate to individual schools might well have been of use to the parents, governors and teachers in those schools, I argue that the remainder of the reports have opened up some doubts about the effectiveness of that type of reporting. Indeed, when the inspectorate publishes a report on the teaching of physics or English in the primary phase, for example, I wonder how much of that permeates down to the level of 786 the school. Such reports only offer reading and reporting matter for specialised institutes for education in some of our lesser universities.I think that hon. Members on both sides of the House share my view that we have reached the point when it is right to demand a change. The Secretary of State has announced such a policy and I believe that the hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr. Straw) also has strong views about the future role of the inspectorate. Although he and I might disagree about the objectives behind our impulses on this matter, there is no doubt that it is a common shared belief that the inspectorate can no longer continue for the next 10 or 20 years in the way that it has done.
I welcome that admission and declaration that probably all parties represented in the House seek to bring about change in the role, responsibility and functions of the inspectorate.
My Bill proposes to abolish the inspectorate as it stands and to transfer its functions and responsibilities to the Audit Commission, which would then have a responsibility to set up an educational audit commission with more tightly focused terms of reference to measure implementation and results stemming from the Education Reform Act 1988 and to evaluate the cost effectiveness of many of the local initiatives which might be spread across the nation as good practice.
The second change proposed by my Bill is to bring in fresh people from outside the world of education to act as inspectors so as to maximise input into the inspectorate, while getting a better and broader view from those who have had experience of commerce, education, industry, politics and possibly the church, who could comment on the products of our education system.
While not condemning the inspectorate for past work, I believe that the House accepts that there has to be a change in its focus. My idea of an educational audit commission would be one way of achieving that.
The Bill ought to go into the parliamentary process. I believe that it commands support from both sides of the Chamber. I accept that there are those who question my motives, which are not political and do not stem from any consideration except five years as a schools Minister, a number of years as a school governor and from being a taxpayer. We need to get a better deal from the inspectorate than we have had in the past. I hope that the House will accept my Bill as a declaration of intent for reform to better times for the inspectorate.
§ Mr. Nigel Spearing (Newham, South)rose——
§ Mr. SpeakerIs the hon. Gentleman seeking to oppose the Bill?
§ Mr. SpearingI may be a reactionary, but I share the experience of the hon. Member for Dartford (Mr. Dunn). We have both been subject, in different ways, to the strictures of Her Majesty's inspectors. I was a teacher for some 14 years and the hon. Member was a Minister for five years. Perhaps he is, therefore, responsible to some extent for the state of the education system, which the inspectors have successively reported to the public and this House. The hon. Gentleman, the Conservative party and the Government must take some responsibility for that.
787 I do not dissent from the hon. Gentleman's view that some evolutionary development may be desirable within Her Majesty's inspectorate. Perhaps the role of HMIs could be adjusted along the lines advocated by the Labour party. There is some concern in education circles that, although, under the Education Act 1944, Her Majesty's inspectors must evaluate, inspect and report, they also fulfil functions in relation to best practice. There is not always full agreement about best practice or about whether, if it works in one place, it will work in another. Several newspaper articles have discussed that subject recently.
The hon. Member for Dartford is not asking for evolution, development or even for reform; he is asking for abolition, which is a quite different matter. Her Majesty's inspectors were established by the Privy Council long before so-called maintained education under the Education Act 1870 was dreamt of. They report to the nation on behalf of the tax-paying public, such as the hon. Gentleman and I, on the general results obtained from that wholesale expenditure of moneys which is a right and proper function. Indeed, if that function were not fulfilled the hon. Member for Dartford and his hon. Friends would be the first to say that it should be fulfilled under section 77 of the 1944 Act.
The hon. Member for Dartford wants not only to abolish a corps of ladies and gentlemen who, whatever their views on certain teaching methods, have centuries of experience and skill to contribute for the benefit of the country and a certain status in the minds of most professional teachers and administrators; he wants to transfer it to the Audit Commission, which is not beyond controversy itself. The Audit Commission is responsible for local government expenditure, but the hon. Gentleman does not want local government to administer sixth Form colleges and many aspects of education hitherto looked at by the inspectors. The Audit Commission is concerned with expenditure, economy, efficiency and effectiveness —and therefore with the perceived value of expenditure.
Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will agree with me that educational results are not simply a commodity. It is clear that they are in demand, but they cannot be measured like substances such as wood, stone, cheese, bacon or butter, which can be sold in a market and precisely evaluated, stored and moved around. Probably the most dedicated and best professional teaching and the most effective learning take place in schools with special difficulties. Some may perceive virtually no results of that. However, I have had pupils in my charge when a teacher has said to me, with perhaps a bit of exaggeration, "What is the use, Mr. Spearing? We teach them to read in the term time and they forget in the holidays". What satisfaction can be gained even with enormous expenditure of emotional and professional effort?
I am not saying that this should not happen, but in education value for money cannot be considered in the same way as even some of the more basic functions of local government. Yet the hon. Member for Dartford wishes to hand over Her Majesty's inspectors of schools to the tender mercies of organisations created by the Government in local government legislation at the beginning of the 1980s. He forgets that education is not entirely a matter of pounds, shillings and pence. It is not a commodity with which one can deal precisely and scientifically.
788 Her Majesty's inspectors belong to Her Majesty. There is some debate in education circles about what that means precisely. Her Majesty, through the Privy Council that founded the inspectorate, is exercising some degree of independence from the Executive, the Secretary of State for Education and the Ministers of the day, the professions, local authorities, professional associations and those important but under-noted people, principals of colleges of education and educational academics. The inspectors are independent from all those people. They go, see, speak and make reports on which they can be subjected to questioning.
We all know that in the past 10 years education has undergone rapid change. My noble Friend Lord Callaghan of Cardiff precipitated a debate on the subject about 12 years ago in a celebrated speech at Oxford. He concluded the speech by saying:
What a wise parent would wish for their children so the nation should wish for all its children.That is the watchword of Her Majesty's inspectorate.Long may it remain so. I beg to oppose the Bill.
§ Question put, pursuant to Standing Order No. 19 (Motions for leave to bring in Bills and nomination of Select Committees at commencement of public business):—
§ The House divided: Ayes 96, Noes 136.
789| Division No. 149] | [4.00 pm |
| AYES | |
| Adley, Robert | Irvine, Michael |
| Aitken, Jonathan | Jessel, Toby |
| Alexander, Richard | Johnson Smith, Sir Geoffrey |
| Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham) | Jones, Robert B (Herts W) |
| Atkinson, David | Kellett-Bowman, Dame Elaine |
| Batiste, Spencer | Kilfedder, James |
| Beggs, Roy | Knapman, Roger |
| Bitten, Rt Hon John | MacKay, Andrew (E Berkshire) |
| Blackburn, Dr John G. | McNair-Wilson, Sir Michael |
| Body, Sir Richard | Malins, Humfrey |
| Boscawen, Hon Robert | Marland, Paul |
| Bowden, A. (Brighton K'pto'n) | Mayhew, Rt Hon Sir Patrick |
| Bowden, Gerald (Dulwich) | Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling) |
| Bowis, John | Mitchell, Sir David |
| Boyson, Rt Hon Dr Sir Rhodes | Moate, Roger |
| Braine, Rt Hon Sir Bernard | Montgomery, Sir Fergus |
| Brown, Michael (Brigg & Cl't's) | Morrison, Sir Charles |
| Browne, John (Winchester) | Morrison, Rt Hon Sir Peter |
| Buck, Sir Antony | Nicholson, David (Taunton) |
| Budgen, Nicholas | Norris, Steve |
| Carlisle, John, (Luton N) | Onslow, Rt Hon Cranley |
| Clark, Rt Hon Sir William | Parkinson, Rt Hon Cecil |
| Conway, Derek | Pawsey, James |
| Coombs, Anthony (Wyre F'rest) | Porter, David (Waveney) |
| Couchman, James | Powell, William (Corby) |
| Dickens, Geoffrey | Riddick, Graham |
| Dover, Den | Ross, William (Londonderry E) |
| Dunn, Bob | Rossi, Sir Hugh |
| Durant, Sir Anthony | Rost, Peter |
| Emery, Sir Peter | Shaw, Sir Michael (Scarb') |
| Evans, David (Welwyn Hatf'd) | Shelton, Sir William |
| Fookes, Dame Janet | Skeet, Sir Trevor |
| Forsythe, Clifford (Antrim S) | Smith, Sir Dudley (Warwick) |
| Fox, Sir Marcus | Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield) |
| Gale, Roger | Soames, Hon Nicholas |
| Gardiner, Sir George | Spicer, Michael (S Worcs) |
| Goodson-Wickes, Dr Charles | Stewart, Andy (Sherwood) |
| Griffiths, Sir Eldon (Bury St E') | Taylor, Ian (Esher) |
| Hannam, John | Thompson, D. (Calder Valley) |
| Hargreaves, Ken (Hyndburn) | Thorne, Neil |
| Hayward, Robert | Townsend, Cyril D. (B'heath) |
| Hicks, Mrs Maureen (Wolv' NE) | Vaughan, Sir Gerard |
| Hill, James | Viggers, Peter |
| Holt, Richard | Walden, George |
| Howarth, G. (Cannock & B'wd) | Warren, Kenneth |
| Hughes, Robert G. (Harrow W) | Watts, John |
| Hunter, Andrew | Wheeler, Sir John |
| Wiggin, Jerry | Tellers for the Ayes: |
| Woodcock, Dr. Mike | Mrs. Marion Roe and Mr. John Marshall. |
| NOES | |
| Abbott, Ms Diane | Jones, Martyn (Clwyd S W) |
| Adams, Mrs Irene (Paisley, N.) | Kaufman, Rt Hon Gerald |
| Allen, Graham | Lambie, David |
| Alton, David | Lamond, James |
| Anderson, Donald | Livsey, Richard |
| Archer, Rt Hon Peter | Lofthouse, Geoffrey |
| Armstrong, Hilary | Loyden, Eddie |
| Ashley, Rt Hon Jack | McKay, Allen (Barnsley West) |
| Ashton, Joe | McKelvey, William |
| Barnes, Harry (Derbyshire NE) | McMaster, Gordon |
| Barron, Kevin | McNamara, Kevin |
| Beaumont-Dark, Anthony | Madden, Max |
| Beith, A. J. | Mahon, Mrs Alice |
| Bellotti, David | Marek, Dr John |
| Benn, Rt Hon Tony | Marshall, Jim (Leicester S) |
| Benton, Joseph | Martlew, Eric |
| Bermingham, Gerald | Maxton, John |
| Boateng, Paul | Meale, Alan |
| Bottomley, Peter | Michael, Alun |
| Boyes, Roland | Michie, Bill (Sheffield Heeley) |
| Bradley, Keith | Morgan, Rhodri |
| Buckley, George J. | Morley, Elliot |
| Caborn, Richard | Morris, Rt Hon A. (W'shawe) |
| Campbell, Ron (Blyth Valley) | Mowlam, Marjorie |
| Campbell-Savours, D. N. | Mullin, Chris |
| Clark, Dr David (S Shields) | Murphy, Paul |
| Clarke, Tom (Monklands W) | Nellist, Dave |
| Clwyd, Mrs Ann | Oakes, Rt Hon Gordon |
| Cohen, Harry | O'Brien, William |
| Corbett, Robin | O'Neill, Martin |
| Corbyn, Jeremy | Orme, Rt Hon Stanley |
| Crowther, Stan | Parry, Robert |
| Cummings, John | Patchett, Terry |
| Cunliffe, Lawrence | Pike, Peter L. |
| Dalyell, Tam | Powell, Ray (Ogmore) |
| Davies, Ron (Caerphilly) | Primarolo, Dawn |
| Duffy, A. E. P. | Quin, Ms Joyce |
| Dunnachie, Jimmy | Radice, Giles |
| Dykes, Hugh | Randall, Stuart |
| Eadie, Alexander | Rees, Rt Hon Merlyn |
| Edwards, Huw | Reid, Dr John |
| Evans, John (St Helens N) | Richardson, Jo |
| Ewing, Harry (Falkirk E) | Robertson, George |
| Fatchett, Derek | Rogers, Allan |
| Fearn, Ronald | Ruddock, Joan |
| Flynn, Paul | Salmond, Alex |
| Foot, Rt Hon Michael | Sedgemore, Brian |
| Fyfe, Maria | Sheerman, Barry |
| Gilbert, Rt Hon Dr John | Sheldon, Rt Hon Robert |
| Gilmour, Rt Hon Sir Ian | Short, Clare |
| Godman, Dr Norman A. | Skinner, Dennis |
| Golding, Mrs Llin | Smith, Rt Hon J. (Monk'ds E) |
| Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S) | Soley, Clive |
| Griffiths, Win (Bridgend) | Spearing, Nigel |
| Hain, Peter | Strang, Gavin |
| Hardy, Peter | Straw, Jack |
| Harman, Ms Harriet | Taylor, Matthew (Truro) |
| Hattersley, Rt Hon Roy | Thompson, Jack (Wansbeck) |
| Haynes, Frank | Turner, Dennis |
| Hinchliffe, David | Wareing, Robert N. |
| Hoey, Ms Kate (Vauxhall) | Watson, Mike (Glasgow, C) |
| Hogg, N. (C'nauld & Kilsyth) | Welsh, Andrew (Angus E) |
| Hood, Jimmy | Wigley, Dafydd |
| Howarth, George (Knowsley N) | Williams, Alan W. (Carm'then) |
| Howells, Geraint | Winnick, David |
| Howells, Dr. Kim (Pontypridd) | Wray, Jimmy |
| Hughes, John (Coventry NE) | |
| Hughes, Roy (Newport E) | Tellers for the Noes: |
| Illsley, Eric | Mr. John Battle and |
| Jones, Barry (Alyn & Deeside) | Mr. Andrew F. Bennett. |
§ Question accordingly negatived.