HC Deb 26 March 1991 vol 188 cc747-8
1. Mr. Holt

To ask the Secretary of State for Employment how many indentured apprentices were registered on 1 January each year for the past 20 years.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Employment (Mr. Robert Jackson)

The labour force survey showed that there were 352,000 apprentices in Great Britain in spring 1990 compared with 367,000 in spring 1979 when the data were first collected, but it must be recognised that apprenticeships are only part of the system of delivering vocational training. Youth training, for example, currently provides training for 350,000 young people, compared with only 6,000 in 1979. Most of these are in addition to the number of apprentices.

Mr. Holt

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. I am pleased that so many apprentices are still indentured in Britain, contrary to the generally held view that the numbers have declined rapidly. I commend to my hon. Friend the furniture industry for its new and imaginative scheme for trainees in that industry, in which skill has a pre-eminent position. Would not it be even better if we reviewed the way in which education and training are still divided unnaturally by the school leaving age of 16? That would allow even more young people to take advantage of the excellent training available in the furniture industry.

Mr. Jackson

I am happy to join my hon. Friend in congratulating the furniture industry on what sounds an excellent scheme. I hope to have an opportunity to see something of it at first hand. The whole House is beginning to recognise the success of youth training. It has brought into training hundreds of thousands of young people who would not previously have been trained. That is surely a fact that can be accepted. Youth training is improving the quality of training by shifting the focus from the time served to the acquisition of relevant competences, and it is delivering qualifications. According to the latest figures, 69 per cent. of those who complete youth training acquire qualifications. That is an impressive result.

Mr. Beggs

Would the Under-Secretary of State like to comment on the observation that is made from time to time that our European partners devote much more of their national resources to education and training? Perhaps he would comment on how we stand in the league table.

Mr. Jackson

International comparisons are complex and difficult, but comparisons show that, on the education side, we are one of the high spenders, and that, on the training side, the Government are one of the highest spenders. It is not true that we invest less than other countries in education and training. There may be questions about the effectiveness with which, in the past, we have invested in education and training. We are pursuing that matter actively. When answering my hon. Friend the Member for Langbaurgh (Mr. Holt), I should have added that we are looking into a review such as he suggested. Only last Thursday, my right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science announced a White Paper on the subject.

Mr. Latham

Is my hon. Friend aware that if he wants to have a reasonable number of apprentices in the construction industry, he will have to keep the Construction Industry Training Board as a statutory organisation, whether he wants it or not?

Mr. Jackson

As my hon. Friend knows, only the other day we debated an order on the levy for the Construction Industry Training Board. We are continuing to sustain the board. We had a rather equivocal debate with the Opposition, in which I believe my hon. Friend took part.

Mr. Fatchett

Will the Minister confirm that the number of apprenticeships in manufacturing industries in Britain has declined by two thirds during the lifetime of the Government? Is not that further evidence of the skills gap between Britain and other countries and further confirmation of the point made last week by the Secretary of State for Education and Science when he admitted that Britain still lags behind our competitors in the participation of school leavers in both education and training? Were not the Secretary of State's words simply a condemnation of the Government's record and an indication of their failure in both education and training?

Mr. Jackson

The proportion of our young people who stay on in full-time education beyond 16 is relatively low, but it has improved substantially since the Labour party was last in office. I simply cannot accept what the hon. Gentleman says. I do not have a breakdown of apprentices by sector of manufacturing industry. I shall certainly look into that and come back to the hon. Gentleman. Over the past 10 years there has been a phenomenal increase in the productivity of manufacturing industry. That must be taken into account.