§ 8. Mr. CunliffeTo ask the Secretary of State for Health what is his latest estimate of the number of health authorities currently in deficit.
§ Mr. WaldegraveThe latest figures that I have show 59 district health authorities spending at a higher rate than their regular income. Almost all districts will have corrected this by the end of the year.
§ Mr. CunliffeIs the Secretary of State aware that there are conflicting reports about the figures that he cited? In a recent survey of community health councils, 92 per cent. agreed that nine out of every 10 district health authorities were seriously underfunded and had been forced to make cuts in essential services. They agreed that that mammoth task was being imposed on them as a result of unrealistic budgets.
Is the Secretary of State aware of the position in the north-west of England— in particular, in the Greater Manchester area, where, at the Royal Manchester children's hospital, implant ear operations for tinnitus sufferers have had to be suspended? Budgetary controls have forced that hospital not to perform the £46,000 ear operation: the district health authority has had to cut its income.
Will the Secretary of State take note of that and stop asking our health authorities to run hospital services like a chain of supermarkets——
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. That is enough.
§ Mr. Cunlifferose——
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. The hon. Gentleman knows that this is not an Adjournment debate.
§ Mr. WaldegraveI missed the latter part of the hon. Gentleman's speech, but his general drift does not entirely coincide with the figures from the Wigan district health authority area which show that waiting lists are falling and that the number of long waits has fallen markedly. The hon. Gentleman was referring to the telephone poll of some community health councils arranged by the hon. Member for Livingston (Mr. Cook). I do not deny that 126 some district health authorities are under pressure to balance their budgets, but if Opposition Members think that bad management and inefficient financial management are in the interests of patients, they are wrong.
§ Mr. Nicholas WintertonI appreciate my right hon. Friend's rational reply, but does he accept that there is a problem and that many more health authorities would be in deficit had they not closed beds and wards at a time when there are people who need to go into hospital for treatment and when hospital theatres and many excellent consultants are available for much-needed operations?
§ Mr. WaldegraveWhere a budget is overrun, action has to be taken to correct the deficit and sometimes the action is not the most efficient in terms of using that hospital's resources. It would be wholly unfair to the great majority of districts throughout the country which are balancing their books properly if those which overran were allowed to pre-empt resources from them.
§ Mr. Robin CookDoes not the Secretary of State realise that it is not deficits that damage patient care, but the cuts that are made to avoid deficits? If he is in any doubt about that, will he accept my invitation to visit the accident department at King's College hospital where, last night, 11 patients spent the whole night on trolleys and where, this afternoon, there are 18 emergency cases on trolleys because more than 100 beds were shut at that hospital to avoid deficit? Is balancing the books really worth that indignity and that delay in patient care?
§ Mr. WaldegraveEncouraging bad management is strongly against the interests of patients. There is a well-understood problem at the accident and emergency department at King's, but the latest figures show that about half the surgery being done at that hospital is non-emergency surgery—elective surgery. That shows that the hospital is not under as much pressure as the hon. Gentleman suggested.