§ Mr. DouglasI beg to move amendment No. 11, in page 6, line 41, leave out from 'instrument' to 'House' in line 42 and insert
'which shall not come into effect unless a draft of the instrument has been laid before and approved by each'.I shall be brief on this simple issue of principle. The Government repeatedly argue that this is a paving measure. It is a time-honoured practice to use statutory instruments. About 100 years ago we might have been able to go against that practice, but it is difficult to do so today.The Bill is a new and significant measure that affects everybody in Scotland, England and Wales. Statutory instruments using the negative procedure do nothing to enhance the stature of Parliament. The least that the Government can do for the mother of Parliaments is to replace the Bill's entitlement to use the negative procedure with the affirmative procedure. For many years we have seen how the Government majority operates and it has been demonstrated again in Committee. If the Government do not accept my amendment, I intend to divide the Committee.
§ Mr. KeyI shall explain the procedure. I cannot understand why hon. Members should wish to have an affirmative resolution each time that it is necessary to make some minor technical change to the definition of domestic property in England, Scotland or Wales, or to prescribe that a property which stands in more than one area shall, for the purposes of valuation, be deemed to stand within a single, specified area. I accept that the hon. Member for Dunfermline, West (Mr. Douglas) was focusing largely on the regulations to be made under clause 3(3), which prescribes the assumptions and principles on which the valuation is to be carried out.
These are important matters, but they do not warrant the affirmative resolution procedure. That is because the underlying principle of the valuation, the banding of domestic property, is in the Bill. The regulations about assumptions are subject to negative resolution, following the precedent for similar regulations for non-domestic rating made under paragraph 2(8) of schedule 6 to the Local Government Finance Act 1988. Therefore, this is not something new and untried. I assure the Committee that there is no question of wishing to minimise the influence of Parliament. As I have said, these are technical matters and the negative resolution procedures are the most appropriate way for them to be dealt with.
§ Mr. DouglasIn the light of that extremely unsatisfactory reply, I shall press the amendment to a vote.
§ Question put, That the amendment be made:—
§ The Committee divided: Ayes 177, Noes 270.
1007| Division No. 171] | [10.28 |
| AYES | |
| Abbott, Ms Diane | Haynes, Frank |
| Adams, Mrs Irene (Paisley, N.) | Hinchliffe, David |
| Allen, Graham | Hogg, N. (C'nauld & Kilsyth) |
| Alton, David | Home Robertson, John |
| Archer, Rt Hon Peter | Howells, Geraint |
| Armstrong, Hilary | Howells, Dr. Kim (Pontypridd) |
| Ashdown, Rt Hon Paddy | Hughes, John (Coventry NE) |
| Ashley, Rt Hon Jack | Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen N) |
| Ashton, Joe | Hughes, Roy (Newport E) |
| Barnes, Harry (Derbyshire NE) | Hughes, Simon (Southwark) |
| Barnes, Mrs Rosie (Greenwich) | Illsley, Eric |
| Barron, Kevin | Ingram, Adam |
| Battle, John | Jones, Barry (Alyn & Deeside) |
| Beckett, Margaret | Jones, Martyn (Clwyd S W) |
| Beith, A. J. | Kaufman, Rt Hon Gerald |
| Bell, Stuart | Lambie, David |
| Bellotti, David | Lamond, James |
| Bermingham, Gerald | Leadbitter, Ted |
| Blair, Tony | Leighton, Ron |
| Blunkett. David | Lewis, Terry |
| Boateng, Paul | Litherland, Robert |
| Boyes, Roland | Livingstone, Ken |
| Bradley, Keith | Livsey, Richard |
| Bray, Dr Jeremy | Lloyd, Tony (Stretford) |
| Brown, Nicholas (Newcastle E) | Loyden, Eddie |
| Brown, Ron (Edinburgh Leith) | McAllion, John |
| Caborn, Richard | McAvoy, Thomas |
| Callaghan, Jim | Macdonald, Calum A. |
| Campbell, Menzies (Fife NE) | McFall, John |
| Campbell, Ron (Blyth Valley) | McKay, Allen (Barnsley West) |
| Canavan, Dennis | McKelvey, William |
| Carlile, Alex (Mont'g) | McMaster, Gordon |
| Carr, Michael | McWilliam, John |
| Clark, Dr David (S Shields) | Madden, Max |
| Clarke, Tom (Monklands W) | Mahon, Mrs Alice |
| Clelland, David | Marek, Dr John |
| Cohen, Harry | Marshall, David (Shettleston) |
| Cryer, Bob | Martin, Michael J. (Springburn) |
| Cummings, John | Martlew, Eric |
| Cunliffe, Lawrence | Meale, Alan |
| Dalyell, Tam | Michael, Alun |
| Darling, Alistair | Michie, Bill (Sheffield Heeley) |
| Davies, Ron (Caerphilly) | Michie, Mrs Ray (Arg'l & Bute) |
| Davis, Terry (B'ham Hodge H'I) | Moonie, Dr Lewis |
| Dewar, Donald | Morgan, Rhodri |
| Dixon, Don | Morley, Elliot |
| Dobson, Frank | Morris, Rt Hon J. (Aberavon) |
| Douglas, Dick | Mowlam, Marjorie |
| Duffy, A. E. P. | Murphy, Paul |
| Dunnachie, Jimmy | Nellist, Dave |
| Dunwoody, Hon Mrs Gwyneth | Oakes, Rt Hon Gordon |
| Eastham, Ken | O'Brien, William |
| Edwards, Huw | O'Hara, Edward |
| Ewing, Mrs Margaret (Moray) | Parry, Robert |
| Fatchett, Derek | Patchett, Terry |
| Faulds, Andrew | Pendry, Tom |
| Fearn, Ronald | Pike, Peter L. |
| Fields, Terry (L'pool B G'n) | Powell, Ray (Ogmore) |
| Flynn, Paul | Prescott, John |
| Foot, Rt Hon Michael | Primarolo, Dawn |
| Foster, Derek | Quin, Ms Joyce |
| Foulkes, George | Redmond, Martin |
| Fraser, John | Reid, Dr John |
| Fyfe, Maria | Richardson, Jo |
| Galbraith, Sam | Robinson, Geoffrey |
| Garrett, John (Norwich South) | Ross, Ernie (Dundee W) |
| Godman, Dr Norman A. | Rowlands, Ted |
| Golding, Mrs Llin | Ruddock, Joan |
| Gordon, Mildred | Sedgemore, Brian |
| Gould, Bryan | Sheerman, Barry |
| Graham, Thomas | Sheldon, Rt Hon Robert |
| Grant, Bernie (Tottenham) | Shore, Rt Hon Peter |
| Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S) | Skinner, Dennis |
| Griffiths, Win (Bridgend) | Smith, Andrew (Oxford E) |
| Hain, Peter | Smith, C. (Isl'ton & F'bury) |
| Hardy, Peter | Smith, Rt Hon J. (Monk'ds E) |
| Harman, Ms Harriet | Smith, J. P. (Vale of Glam) |
| Soley, Clive | Watson, Mike (Glasgow, C) |
| Spearing, Nigel | Welsh, Andrew (Angus E) |
| Steel, Rt Hon Sir David | Wigley, Dafydd |
| Steinberg, Gerry | Williams, Rt Hon Alan |
| Strang, Gavin | Williams, Alan W. (Carm'then) |
| Taylor, Mrs Ann (Dewsbury) | Winnick, David |
| Taylor, Matthew (Truro) | Wise, Mrs Audrey |
| Thomas, Dr Dafydd Elis | Worthington, Tony |
| Thompson, Jack (Wansbeck) | Young, David (Bolton SE) |
| Turner, Dennis | |
| Vaz, Keith | Tellers for the Ayes: |
| Wallace, James | Mr. Archy Kirkwood and |
| Wardell, Gareth (Gower) | Mr. Alex Salmond. |
| Wareing, Robert N. | |
| NOES | |
| Adley, Robert | Dicks, Terry |
| Aitken, Jonathan | Dorrell, Stephen |
| Alexander, Richard | Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James |
| Alison, Rt Hon Michael | Dover, Den |
| Allason, Rupert | Dunn, Bob |
| Amess, David | Dykes, Hugh |
| Amos, Alan | Eggar, Tim |
| Arbuthnot, James | Evans, David (Welwyn Hatf'd) |
| Arnold, Sir Thomas | Fairbairn, Sir Nicholas |
| Ashby, David | Fallon, Michael |
| Aspinwall, Jack | Favell, Tony |
| Atkins, Robert | Fenner, Dame Peggy |
| Atkinson, David | Field, Barry (Isle of Wight) |
| Baker, Rt Hon K. (Mole Valley) | Finsberg, Sir Geoffrey |
| Baker, Nicholas (Dorset N) | Fishburn, John Dudley |
| Batiste, Spencer | Fookes, Dame Janet |
| Beggs, Roy | Forman, Nigel |
| Bellingham, Henry | Forsyth, Michael (Stirling) |
| Bendall, Vivian | Forth, Eric |
| Bennett, Nicholas (Pembroke) | Fowler, Rt Hon Sir Norman |
| Biffen, Rt Hon John | Fox, Sir Marcus |
| Blackburn, Dr John G. | Franks, Cecil |
| Blaker, Rt Hon Sir Peter | Freeman, Roger |
| Body, Sir Richard | French, Douglas |
| Bonsor, Sir Nicholas | Fry, Peter |
| Boscawen, Hon Robert | Gale, Roger |
| Boswell, Tim | Gardiner, Sir George |
| Bowden, A. (Brighton K'pto'n) | Gill, Christopher |
| Bowden, Gerald (Dulwich) | Gilmour, Rt Hon Sir Ian |
| Bowis, John | Glyn, Dr Sir Alan |
| Boyson, Rt Hon Dr Sir Rhodes | Goodhart, Sir Philip |
| Brandon-Bravo, Martin | Goodlad, Alastair |
| Brazier, Julian | Goodson-Wickes, Dr Charles |
| Bright, Graham | Gorman, Mrs Teresa |
| Brooke, Rt Hon Peter | Grant, Sir Anthony (CambsSW) |
| Brown, Michael (Brigg & Cl't's) | Greenway, Harry (Ealing N) |
| Bruce, Ian (Dorset South) | Greenway, John (Ryedale) |
| Buchanan-Smith, Rt Hon Alick | Gregory, Conal |
| Buck, Sir Antony | Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth N) |
| Butcher, John | Grist, Ian |
| Butler, Chris | Ground, Patrick |
| Butterfill, John | Grylls, Michael |
| Carlisle, John, (Luton N) | Hague, William |
| Carlisle, Kenneth (Lincoln) | Hamilton, Hon Archie (Epsom) |
| Carrington, Matthew | Hamilton, Neil (Tatton) |
| Carttiss, Michael | Hanley, Jeremy |
| Cash, William | Hannam, John |
| Channon, Rt Hon Paul | Hargreaves, Ken (Hyndburn) |
| Chapman, Sydney | Harris, David |
| Churchill, Mr | Hawkins, Christopher |
| Clark, Rt Hon Alan (Plymouth) | Hayes, Jerry |
| Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford) | Hayward, Robert |
| Clark, Rt Hon Sir William | Heathcoat-Amory, David |
| Clarke, Rt Hon K. (Rushcliffe) | Hicks, Mrs Maureen (Wolv' NE) |
| Colvin, Michael | Hicks, Robert (Cornwall SE) |
| Coombs, Anthony (Wyre F'rest) | Higgins, Rt Hon Terence L. |
| Coombs, Simon (Swindon) | Hill, James |
| Cope, Rt Hon John | Hind, Kenneth |
| Couchman, James | Holt, Richard |
| Cran, James | Hordern, Sir Peter |
| Davies, Q. (Stamf'd & Spald'g) | Howard, Rt Hon Michael |
| Davis, David (Boothferry) | Howarth, Alan (Strat'd-on-A) |
| Day, Stephen | Howarth, G. (Cannock & B'wd) |
| Dickens, Geoffrey | Howell, Rt Hon David (G'dford) |
| Hughes, Robert G. (Harrow W) | Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth |
| Hunt, Sir John (Ravensbourne) | Porter, David (Waveney) |
| Hunter, Andrew | Portillo, Michael |
| Irvine, Michael | Powell, William (Corby) |
| Jack, Michael | Price, Sir David |
| Janman, Tim | Raison, Rt Hon Sir Timothy |
| Johnson Smith, Sir Geoffrey | Redwood, John |
| Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N) | Riddick, Graham |
| Jones, Robert B (Herts W) | Rifkind, Rt Hon Malcolm |
| Jopling, Rt Hon Michael | Roberts, Sir Wyn (Conwy) |
| Kellett-Bowman, Dame Elaine | Roe, Mrs Marion |
| Key, Robert | Ross, William (Londonderry E) |
| Kilfedder, James | Rost, Peter |
| King, Rt Hon Tom (Bridgwater) | Rowe, Andrew |
| Kirkhope, Timothy | Rumbold, Rt Hon Mrs Angela |
| Knapman, Roger | Sackville, Hon Tom |
| Knight, Greg (Derby North) | Sayeed, Jonathan |
| Knowles, Michael | Scott, Rt Hon Nicholas |
| Knox, David | Shaw, David (Dover) |
| Lang, Rt Hon Ian | Shaw, Sir Michael (Scarb') |
| Latham, Michael | Shelton, Sir William |
| Lee, John (Pendle) | Shephard, Mrs G. (Norfolk SW) |
| Leigh, Edward (Gainsbor'gh) | Shepherd, Richard (Aldridge) |
| Lennox-Boyd, Hon Mark | Shersby, Michael |
| Lester, Jim (Broxtowe) | Skeet, Sir Trevor |
| Lloyd, Sir Ian (Havant) | Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield) |
| Lloyd, Peter (Fareham) | Soames, Hon Nicholas |
| Lord, Michael | Speller, Tony |
| Luce, Rt Hon Sir Richard | Spicer, Sir Jim (Dorset W) |
| Lyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas | Spicer, Michael (S Worcs) |
| Macfarlane, Sir Neil | Squire, Robin |
| MacGregor, Rt Hon John | Stanbrook, Ivor |
| MacKay, Andrew (E Berkshire) | Stanley, Rt Hon Sir John |
| Maclean, David | Stevens, Lewis |
| McLoughlin, Patrick | Stewart, Allan (Eastwood) |
| McNair-Wilson, Sir Michael | Stewart, Andy (Sherwood) |
| McNair-Wilson, Sir Patrick | Stewart, Rt Hon Ian (Herts N) |
| Madel, David | Sumberg, David |
| Malins, Humfrey | Summerson, Hugo |
| Marland, Paul | Tapsell, Sir Peter |
| Marlow, Tony | Taylor, Teddy (S'end E) |
| Marshall, John (Hendon S) | Tebbit, Rt Hon Norman |
| Marshall, Sir Michael (Arundel) | Temple-Morris, Peter |
| Martin, David (Portsmouth S) | Thompson, D. (Calder Valley) |
| Mates, Michael | Thompson, Patrick (Norwich N) |
| Maude, Hon Francis | Thornton, Malcolm |
| Mawhinney, Dr Brian | Thurnham, Peter |
| Mayhew, Rt Hon Sir Patrick | Townsend, Cyril D. (B'heath) |
| Mellor, Rt Hon David | Tracey, Richard |
| Meyer, Sir Anthony | Trippier, David |
| Miller, Sir Hal | Trotter, Neville |
| Mills, Iain | Twinn, Dr Ian |
| Miscampbell, Norman | Vaughan, Sir Gerard |
| Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling) | Viggers, Peter |
| Mitchell, Sir David | Ward, John |
| Moate, Roger | Wardle, Charles (Bexhill) |
| Monro, Sir Hector | Watts, John |
| Montgomery, Sir Fergus | Wheeler, Sir John |
| Morris, M (N'hampton S) | Whitney, Ray |
| Moss, Malcolm | Wiggin, Jerry |
| Neale, Sir Gerrard | Wilkinson, John |
| Nelson, Anthony | Wilshire, David |
| Neubert, Sir Michael | Winterton, Mrs Ann |
| Newton, Rt Hon Tony | Winterton, Nicholas |
| Nicholls, Patrick | Wolfson, Mark |
| Nicholson, David (Taunton) | Wood, Timothy |
| Nicholson, Emma (Devon West) | Woodcock, Dr. Mike |
| Onslow, Rt Hon Cranley | Yeo, Tim |
| Oppenheim, Phillip | Young, Sir George (Acton) |
| Page, Richard | |
| Paice, James | Tellers for the Noes: |
| Pattie, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey | Mr. John M. Taylor and |
| Pawsey, James | Mr. Irvine Patrick. |
§ Question accordingly negatived.
§ Clause 7 ordered to stand part of the Bill.