Trade Unions (Hansard, 10 June 1991)

§ 46. Mr. Skinner
To ask the Minister for the Civil Service when he last discussed the question of civil service conditions of work with trade union representatives; arid if he will make a statement.

§ Mr. Renton
rose—[HON. MEMBERS: "Come on!"] It was the reference to "Sir Dennis" that upset me.
I meet civil service trade union representatives from time to time to discuss a wide variety of issues.

§ Mr. Skinner
Being knighted does not upset me because it ain't going to happen.
In his discussions with trade union representatives, will the Minister bear in mind that it is high time that he stopped slagging off low-paid civil servants who are trying to keep their wages in relation to inflation and compare them with some of the bosses in British industry such as the head of British Telecom, who was given an increase of 43 per cent. last week? Instead of offering these civil servants between 6 and 7 per cent., why do the Government not give them the going rate that their bosses got last year, which was 22.7 per cent?

§ Mr. Renton
First, I congratulate the hon. Member on sticking to his principles and not going to the Labour fund-raising banquet last week with all the glitterati. I agree with his thoughts about smoked salmon socialism.
As for the hon. Gentleman's comments about low-paid civil servants, the average settlement this year is in the range of 8 to 8.5 per cent.—well ahead of the current rate of inflation. I am glad to say that many civil servants will benefit from that.

§ Mr. Alan Rogers (Rhondda)
rose—

§ Mr. Speaker
Now, what is this point of order?

§ Mr. Rogers
First, I want to say how sorry I am to have shouted at you, Mr. Speaker, in the middle of Question Time. However, 1 am sure that you understand the strength of the feelings of Welsh Opposition Members. We have only 40 minutes of Welsh questions each month and we do not have the discretion to run over by four minutes, as happened in this instance—[Interruption.]

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I think that the question is being addressed to me.

§ Mr. Rogers
The Opposition are in a difficult position. When the rules on Welsh Question Time were laid down, we had a certain number of Welsh Members. In the past year or so, we have anihilated the Government by winning by-elections. There is now severe pressure on the time during which Opposition Members can participate in Welsh questions. As many of us refrain from interfering in other Question Times because we want to bring matters up during Welsh Question Time, will you, Mr. Speaker, look at the rules under which Wesh Question Time takes place with a view to extending the time?
Meanwhile, the Government have to introduce all sorts of strange individuals to put questions—especially those who roll in here, are called about 10 seconds later, and put questions that have nothing to do with their constituencies. Will you please look at the matter?

§ Mr. Speaker
I am well aware of the frustration of not being called at Question Time. As I said, the hon. Member for Rhondda (Mr. Rogers) is himself a Front-Bench spokesman, and I call Front-Bench Members whenever they rise. Today I called 18 Welsh Opposition Members, and I call seven Conservative Members, of whom three had questions on the Order Paper. I do not think that that balance gives the Government side an unfair advantage—indeed, rather the reverse.

§ Mr. Alan Williams (Swansea, West)
Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I am still on my feet.
Furthermore, this is a United Kingdom Parliament. The hon. Member for Rhondda is a Front-Bench spokesman on defence and he fully expects to take part in Defence Question Time. I must tell him and other Front-Bench Members that I regret that during questions to other Departments I cannot give them the same preference that I give to Back-Bench Members because they have an automatic right to be called when they sit on the Front Bench.

§ Mr. Alan Williams
We well understand the need to continue to recognise that this is a United Kingdom Parliament. However, I am sure that you, Mr. Speaker, understand that it is offensive to those of us who have so limited an opportunity to represent the point of view of our constituents if an hon. Member comes into the Chamber, sits down and within seconds is called when those of us who have been sitting here since the start of Question Time—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I cannot always take account of when hon. Members come in—

Several hon. Members
rose—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I do not have eyes in the back of my head. I seek to keep a balance.

§ Mr. Geoffrey Dickens (Littleborough and Saddleworth)
rose—

Hon. Members
What about Dickens?

§ Mr. Speaker
I could hardly mistake him.

§ Mr. Dickens
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

§ Mr. Speaker
I really think that we have had enough of this. We have a guillotine today. However, as I have mentioned the hon. Member for Littleborough and Saddleworth (Mr. Dickens), I will call him.

§ Mr. Dickens
I have been here for Northern Irish questions, for Scottish questions and for Welsh questions. As millions of pounds from England is spent on those countries, I feel entitled to come to Welsh Question Time and to scrutinise how money is spent. We pour in millions of pounds to support Wales.

Several Hon. Members
rose—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I think that we have had enough of this now.