HC Deb 22 July 1991 vol 195 c738
4. Mr. Knapman

To ask the Secretary of State for Social Security what is the forecast extra cost of SERPS into the year 2035.

The Secretary of State for Social Security (Mr. Tony Newton)

Expenditure on the state earnings-related pension scheme is estimated to rise from nearly £2 billion in 1991–92 to £16 billion in 2035–36, at 1990 prices.

Mr. Knapman

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that reply. Is not it crystal clear that any Government or party which sought to satisfy the funding of pensions at that level solely through state provision would literally be going for broke?

Mr. Newton

If to that prospective rise in costs were added the cost of some of the promises that the hon. Member for Oldham, West (Mr. Meacher) is fond of making, the costs would at least be doubled in 2035–36 and we should be moving into a pension system which I doubt would be sustainable for those to whom the promises were made.

Mr. Donald Thompson

Will my right hon. Friend contemplate increasing the benefits for people who buy their own pensions? What would happen if by some misadventure we were not returned at the next general election?

Mr. Newton

I very much agree with the implication of my hon. Friend's question. The right course is exactly the one that we have been pursuing, which is to make sustainable promises about what the state will provide and to give maximum encouragement to people to build up their own occupational and personal provision. We have done that with huge success.

Mr. McAllion

Can we understand from the Minister's earlier replies on this issue that he is confirming that the Government will not implement SERPS and have changed the uprating of pensions purely to cut the social security budget because they are too mean to give workers in this country the kind of pensions that people receive everywhere else in Europe?

Mr. Newton

Before the hon. Gentleman puts too much weight on that point, he should reflect on the fact that if we followed the pension arrangements of virtually all other European countries, 2 million married women in this country would not have pensions in their own right. Our policies are to ensure real promises to pensioners that can be kept. We have done that and our record compares very well with that of the last Labour Government, which included the non-payment of the Christmas bonus for two years running.