HC Deb 04 July 1991 vol 194 cc422-3
1. Mr. Skinner

To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what proposals he has to introduce a progressive method of charging for television licences.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Peter Lloyd)

We have no proposals to change the present methods of charging for television licences.

Mr. Skinner

The Government and the Prime Minister reckon to believe in a classless society—right? Yet some pensioners on one side of the street get free TV licences while some on the other side do not and some pensioners in warden accommodation get free licences while some in other warden accommodation do not. A rich pensioner living in The Savoy hotel gets a licence free, so I do not want the Minister to give me any of that crap about—[Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker

Order. It is not an unparliamentary word, but it is distasteful.

Mr. Skinner

So I do not want any of that crap coming from the Government. If the Minister says to me, "Where is the money to come from?" I say, "Tax the Queen."

Mr. Lloyd

The hon. Gentleman makes his usual point, but in slightly different words. As he well knows, the Government believe that the right way to help pensioners is through the social security system, not by complicated and bureaucratic adjustments to the licence fee. That is why pensioner rates for those on income support were increased by an additional £200 million in 1989 and a further £80 million earlier this year, over and above the increase in inflation.

Mr. Holt

Does my hon. Friend believe that we in the Conservative group of northern Members are getting good value for their television licences when they have been trying for months to get an appointment with the direct or general of the BBC, who finds himself too busy to meet us?

Mr. Lloyd

I do not believe that that point has any relevance to the question, unless it involves the collection of the concessionary licence fee. If so, that is entirely a matter for the BBC and I am sure that its management will see this exchange in Hansard.

Mr. Battle

Does the Minister accept that the rules on concessionary television licences seem to be arbitrary and a shambles because pensioners in identical housing and income circumstances, living next door to each other, may find that one has a concessionary licence and the other does not? They find that an unfair rule. When will the Government sort out the shambles?

Mr. Lloyd

The Government have sorted out the rules, which are crystal clear. If the hon. Gentleman read through them, he would find them easy to follow. The rules are that pensioners of more than 60 years of age in local authority or housing association homes with their own secure border with a warden on the premises for more than 30 hours a week qualify.