Points of Order (Hansard, 3 July 1991)

Several Hon. Members
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

§ Mr. Speaker
Before I take points of order, I should remind hon. Members that, on 18 June, the House passed a resolution under which the two debates on estimates today would be limited—the first to three hours and the second up to 10 pm. I have had to balance the time given to the two statements against the legitimate interests of hon. Members who wish to participate in the debates about Iraqi refugees and about employment and unemployment. Let that be a balance.

§ Rev. Ian Paisley (Antrim, North)
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I seek your guidance. As you are aware, many hon. Members from Northern Ireland have spent many long hours at the talks that have now concluded. Today I saw a departure in the House from what we are supposed to do—or what I was instructed to do when I became a Member of Parliament—when a statement is made, which is to ask questions. One of the hon. Members from Northern Ireland read a lengthy statement, but I do not think that there was one question in it. As a result, other Northern Ireland Members were not called. The statement was important for all Northern Ireland Members. We feel that it would be happier for us if we knew the type of allocation that we were going to receive on statements on Northern Ireland so that we could work it accordingly.

§ Mr. Speaker
Today, I took the decision that the leaders of the parties would speak for their parties. I hope that that was not an unreasonable assumption to make. That is why I did not call other hon. Members from Ulster who were standing.

§ Mr. Greville Janner (Leicester, West)
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Have you had a request for a statement about the visit near to the precincts of this House tomorrow of the odious French fascist, Mr. Le Pen, who is due to address a conference of the so-called European technical right at the Queen Elizabeth II centre? Should not someone from the Home Office say whether that person is to be allowed into the country, in view of the problems that could arise under the Public Order Act 1986? As the centre is so close to the precincts of the House—and no doubt carefully chosen for that purpose—would you not think it right to give warning to those people that they should not enter the democratic precincts of the Palace of Westminster?

§ Mr. Speaker
I am not responsible for what goes on in the Queen Elizabeth II centre. The hon. and learned Gentleman should present his questions on entry and who has booked the centre to the Government. It is nothing to do with me.

§ Mr. Anthony Beaumont-Dark (Birmingham, Selly Oak)
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Very rarely are you ever misguided, and certainly you are never wrong, but surely the issue of Yugoslavia, which touches upon Britain and the rest of Europe, should have been given more time. Sometimes we have an hour for questions on 337 quite trivial matters. Surely we could have spent at least an hour on such an important matter. How can it be right to cast the issue on one side after such a short time?

§ Mr. Speaker
The hon. Member would be the very first —indeed, he has been the very first—to complain when not called in debate.

§ Mr. Beaumont-Dark
Not at all, Mr. Speaker.

§ Mr. Speaker
Yes, the hon. Member certainly has done that. I have to balance the desire of those who wish to ask questions against the desire of those who wish to make speeches. It is a difficult decision to take—[Interruption.] Do not argue with me, please, from a sedentary position. It is exceptional to have two statements, as we did today, and I judged that I had an obligation to protect the interests of those who wished to speak in the debates which are time limited.

§ Mr. Beaumont-Dark
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

§ Mr. Speaker
No, the hon. Member must not argue with me.

§ Mr. Beaumont-Dark
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. The occupant of the Chair should not impugn an hon. Member's honour.

§ Mr. Speaker
I do not impugn the hon. Gentleman's honour, but I have his letters.

§ Mr. Beaumont-Dark
It is quite wrong to do that.

Hon. Members
He is going.

§ Mr. Speaker
Every Speaker occasionally needs to be deaf, and sometimes blind.

§ Mr. David Winnick (Walsall, North)
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. This country fought fascism for six years. Can you advise us what steps can be taken to bring the Home Secretary to the House to try to justify a poisonous fascist agitator like Le Pen being allowed into this country? That sort of filth should be kept out.

§ Mr. Speaker
That is a matter for the Government. It is not a matter for me. The meeting will not take place here.

§ Sir Michael McNair-Wilson (Newbury)
rose—

§ Mr. Speaker
I have called the hon. Gentleman, but I will call him again.

§ Sir Michael McNair-Wilson
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. May I revert to the issue of Northern Ireland? Northern Ireland is one of the few subjects that draws six political parties in the House into its business. When there are two statements, one about part of the United Kingdom —Northern Ireland—and one about Yugoslavia, where we have little involvement, it seems strange that we give equal time to them both. May I suggest—

§ Mr. Speaker
No, I do not think that the hon. Member may. I have to make these difficult judgments. The hon. Gentleman, too, has complained in the past about not being called to speak in debates.

§ Mr. Peter Robinson (Belfast, East)
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Will you help me by clarifying your earlier 338 ruling? Were you, as a defender of Back Benchers, saying that you were prepared to call Back Benchers from the Labour and Conservative parties but not from the Northern Ireland parties to ask questions on the Northern Ireland statement?

§ Mr. Speaker
I did not say that at all. I said, as I hope that the whole House heard, that on this matter I thought it legitimate for the leaders of the Ulster parties to express the views of their respective parties. This is a United Kingdom Parliament, and the breakdown of the talks is a matter not only for Members from Northern Ireland but for the whole House of Commons.

§ Rev. Martin Smyth (Belfast, South)
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate your difficulties, but, on the other hand, it is not strange for Members of parties in the House not to see eye to eye with their Front-Bench spokesmen. We all recognise that that happens from time to time. May I ask for your guidance? Earlier, you rather suggested that, during Northern Ireland questions and in the appropriation debate, we could deal with issues arising from the Secretary of State's statement today—which I considered rather limited. Were you suggesting that the Chair will turn a blind eye and a deaf ear if we occasionally wander on those occasions?

§ Mr. Speaker
I certainly was not saying that, either. The hon. Member will have to ensure that his questions are in order. However, as a Member of considerable sophistication, he has never found difficulty in doing that. Yesterday, I managed to call in defence questions almost all the Members who, because of the pressure of time, were not called in the debate the previous day. I shall do my best during Northern Ireland questions next Thursday.