HC Deb 02 July 1991 vol 194 cc154-6
7. Mr. Cran

To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what implications his "Options for Change" review will have for the regimental system.

Mr. Tom King

Even though numbers will reduce under "Options for Change", the Government have made it clear that they believe in, and will maintain, the regimental system.

Mr. Cran

My right hon. Friend has, rightly, not ruled out the possibility that some regiments and battalions may have to be disbanded. Does he agree that the criteria for that purpose should be not whether the battalion or regiment has an illustrious past or a name but rather how well it has recruited and retained its members? Will he consider the possibility that, if some battalions and regiments have to be disbanded, they could be transferred to the Territorial Army and the name retained for other use?

Mr. King

That possibility has been considered. The Army is pursuing this matter in consultations and I am sure that that is the right way to go about it. One of the most objectionable remarks made in the debate yesterday was that I should have intervened and decided, without consulting the Army or giving it the opportunity to determine this difficult change for itself. In the end, I have to take the responsibility and I shall have to stand at the Dispatch Box and justify the decisions reached. Therefore, it is far better for me to invite the Army to see whether it can arrive at the most satisfactory solution for the Army.

Mr. Martlew

Ministerial guidelines say that the criteria used for the reduction in the infantry should take into consideration previous amalgamations and the geographical area for recruitment. Is the Minister aware that there will be great anger in Carlisle and throughout Cumbria if there is a move to disband the King's Own Royal Border Regiment? Will he give a guarantee that he will look carefully at keeping the county regiments, because there will be even greater anger if the two Yorkshire regiments of the King's Division are left unchanged?

Mr. King

I have no doubt that there will be great anger in the hon. Gentleman's constituency about possible changes to regiments. I wonder how much anger there would be if he or any of his constituents knew that his Front-Bench spokesmen have said that they see no further relevance in the regimental system.

Mr. Boscawen

When my right hon. Friend exercises his responsibility in making decisions on the future of the regimental system, will he bear in mind the fact that a central part of that system is the training of recruits and refresher training of non-commissioned officers and officers? The system that has been built up over many years is excellent, so will my right hon. Friend not discard it easily or lightly?

Mr. King

I give my hon. Friend the absolute undertaking, which I know is shared by the Army board and those involved in the exercise, that none of those decisions will be taken easily or lightly. These are serious issues. Almost all right hon. and hon. Members recognise that changes have to come, but they raise difficult issues which we shall consider seriously.

Mr. Menzies Campbell

The Secretary of State will have had the opportunity to consider at leisure the speeches made in the debate yesterday, including, I hope, the most telling contribution from his predecessor, the right hon. Member for Ayr (Mr. Younger). Does the Secretary of State realise that he could remove a great deal of the anxiety that is felt about possible changes to regiments if he were to make it clear now that the ability to recruit and to retain will be regarded as the primary factors in determining whether regiments continue?

Mr. King

I am grateful for the thoughtful and constructive contribution from my predecessor in this office. He said, fairly, that when the Army board puts forward its proposals and I announce to the House whatever decisions are taken upon them, we must make clear the basis and the reasons for those proposals. The decisions will not be easy. There is great concern for the loyalty and all the other features of the regimental system that we cherish which will be at stake. However, I fully accept the comments of my right hon. Friend the Member for Ayr (Mr. Younger).

Mr. Hague

Given the importance of the ability to attract and retain good recruits, even though my right hon. Friend cannot comment, will he note that, with the sole exception of the Gurkhas, the Green Howards is the best-recruited regiment in the British Army and the last locally recruited regiment in the north-east and that its amalgamation or disbandment would be a serious blow to the recruiting ability of the Army?

Mr. King

My hon. Friend is joining others in giving a positive demonstration of why we believe, unlike Opposition Members, that there is much in the regimental system that is worth preserving and that we intend to keep.

Mr. John D. Taylor

Yesterday the nation recalled the battle of the Somme some 75 years ago. The event was particularly commemorated throughout Northern Ireland because of the sacrifices of Ulster people and southern Irish people, both Roman Catholics and Protestants. Will the Secretary of State ensure that those great traditions are retained by maintaining the Royal Irish Rangers?

Mr. King

The right hon. Gentleman will have heard me say earlier that I shall not comment on individual regiments, but I understand why he raises that point. As he will know, I have personal experience of the excellent work and traditions of that regiment.

Mr. Couchman

My right hon. Friend is entirely right to stress the importance of consultation with the Army and taking the onus for the difficult decisions on the Army; but at the end of the day, political decisions will have to be made and when he as Secretary of State makes those decisions, will he bear it in mind that the large regiments, particularly the Queen's and the Anglian regiments, are the result of amalgamations in past years and that they must remain as viable regiments in the future?

Mr. King

My hon. Friend puts well one of the concerns that I know are felt by many regiments that have already faced amalgamation, lost their traditional names and gone forward to establish a considerable esprit de corps and reputation of their own. I understand that point very well.