HC Deb 30 January 1991 vol 184 cc937-8
13. Mrs. Maureen Hicks

To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will make a statement on his recent meeting with west midlands councillors to discuss the community charge review.

Mr. Key

My right hon. Friend met members of Birmingham city council on 18 January and discussed with them a wide range of issues relevant to the review of local government structure and finance.

Mrs. Hicks

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has demonstrated wisely his willingness to go and listen to the voice of the west midlands and to consult widely politicians of all parties. I thank him for that. Will he go a stage further and give those councillors the reassurance that they need, which is that he will carefully assess the weaknesses and strengths of the community charge, not least the principle that each individual should make a contribution to the payment for services received? Have Labour Members, especially those who represent west midlands seats, taken advantage of that and contributed to the debate? To date, I have heard a great deal of criticism, but not much constructive help.

Mr. Key

I give my hon. Friend the assurance that she seeks. We shall give due consideration to all that she says. It is true that throughout the country Ministers are meeting members of local authorities of all political parties. We are meeting Liberal Democratic Members of the House and we are grateful for their contribution to the debate. It is a matter of some sorrow that the parliamentary Labour party is not interested in taking part in the discussions.

Mr. Lewis

At the meeting did west midlands councillors complain about the bureaucracy surrounding the poll tax? Is the Minister pleased that nationwide £130 million has been wasted on updating poll tax registers during the past 12 months?

Mr. Key

The Secretary of State discussed with city councillors income from the charge, the level of standard spending assessments and the fact that Birmingham has an 18 per cent. increase in its SSAs. They discussed the overall role of government in controlling spending. There was a discussion with Labour councillors and others about the question of payment of councillors, the number of councillors and the possibility of a directly elected leader and whether he should be paid. It is curious that those councillors did not raise the point to which the hon. Gentleman referred.

Mr. Conway

Is my hon. Friend aware that his Department counts Shropshire as being in the west midlands? Does he therefore accept that we in Shropshire do not regard the county borough option, which is being widely canvassed, as a suitable solution to the problems of accountability? As long as we have two-tier local government, accountability will not be achieved.

Mr. Key

I note my hon. Friend's point and I am sorry if there was any misunderstanding about it.

Mr. Gould

In the light of the earlier admission from the Minister of State that the poll tax review might leave the poll tax in place in the west midlands and elsewhere, can the Minister say what has happened to the Secretary of State's reforming zeal and to the ferocious attacks that he made on the poll tax when he was campaigning for the Tory leadership? Why will not the right hon. Gentleman and his ministerial colleagues admit that the poll tax is totally discredited and must be abolished? Why cannot he see that that simple admission will clear the way for a proper discussion of what might take its place?

Mr. Key

My right hon. Friend made an exceptionally robust contribution in the House yesterday afternoon and he listened for some hours to the speeches of hon. Members on both sides of the House. I should have thought that the hon. Gentleman would recognise the widely accepted points in favour of the community charge, such as that everybody should contribute something, which would remain valid whatever one called it.