Defence Equipment (Overseas Sales)

HC Deb 19 February 1991 vol 186 cc139-40

11. Mr. Flynn

To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what new initiatives he plans in the area of overseas sales of defence equipment.

Mr. Alan Clark

Officials in the Defence Export Services Organisation are in constant touch with friendly foreign countries, both directly and through overseas posts, to best help furnish the equipment they require for their own self-defence.

Mr. Flynn

Does the Minister recall that the Indonesian Government killed a bigger proportion of the population of East Timor than Pol Pot killed of the population of Cambodia? Why are Government agencies at this moment encouraging British Aerospace to sell Hawk aircraft and other weapons to the butchers of Indonesia? When will we realise that the international arms trade is the greatest cause for evil in the world? When will Britain stop selling arms to the madmen, butchers and tyrants of the world?

Mr. Clark

I reject the imputation that the hon. Gentleman puts on his supplementary question. Very strict and stringent conditions are applied to the sale of armaments. All armaments require export licences and they are considered by three Departments—mine, the Foreign Office and the Department of Trade and Industry.

I reject the hypocrisy that is evident in many of the questions that are directed from the Opposition Benches on this subject. Provided the rules and guidelines are strictly followed, there is a considerable benefit, in terms of domestic employment and overseas earnings, from defence sales. The House is littered with hon. Members on both sides who lobbied me, when I was Minister for Trade and since, on contracts that affected their constituencies, although I recognise that they prefer to keep silent on this occasion.

Sir Dudley Smith

Does the Minister believe that once the war is over, there might be some merit in having a thorough European appraisal of the whole question of the sale of defence equipment, perhaps via the aegis of a body such as the Western European Union?

Mr. Clark

Yes, certainly. After the successful conclusion of the conflict, the most important concern will be to build up and maintain stability in the area. In his Blaby speech, my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary developed that theme at some length.

Mr. Rogers

Further to the remarks by my hon. Friends the Members for Newham, North-West (Mr. Banks) and for Bradford, South (Mr. Cryer), coalition forces in the Gulf are now faced by Iraqi troops who have weapons supplied by coalition countries. Surely that demonstrates the need for more effective control of the arms trade, especially in the light of the fact that in his main answer the Minister said that we should supply arms to friendly foreign countries, which Iraq recently was. Will the Government give the highest priority to the issue of the introduction of weapons into an unstable area, such as the middle east, as soon as the war is over?

Mr. Clark

The basis of Britain's role in defence sales is the right to self-defence as enshrined in article 51 of the United Nations charter, but, of course, that question must be considered sensitively and intelligently and in the light of all the diplomatic and political factors prevailing at the time. When the conflict is over, I have no doubt that, together with the Foreign Office and the Department of Trade and Industry, my Department will look at many of those topics with that point in mind.