HC Deb 15 February 1991 vol 185 cc1171-3 2.30 pm
Mr. Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton)

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. The House will be aware that there have been broadcasts on Baghdad radio suggesting that the Iraqi Government are ready to accept resolution 660 of the United Nations Security Council and to withdraw from Kuwait. If those reports are accurate, they will of course be extremely welcome both to the House and to the entire world. It is reported that some conditions are being attached by Iraq to the withdrawal. Conditions cannot be attached to the fulfilment of resolution 660, which calls for Iraq's unconditional withdrawal from Kuwait.

Clearly we need to know more about what is being proposed. United Nations Security Council requirements have to be met, but if it looks as though the Security Council resolutions are being met, the House will wish to discuss the matter at the earliest possible moment. That being so, I should be grateful if the Minister of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Office, the hon. Member for Watford (Mr. Garel-Jones), could respond by informing the House of any information that the Government have received about the reports from Baghdad and saying whether the Government intend to make a fuller statement later today, if that permits, but otherwise on Monday.

Several Hon. Members

rose

Mr. Speaker

Order. The point of order was to me. The purpose was to ask the Minister for a statement. However, I shall call the Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office to respond to the point of order, on the basis that that is in the best interests of the House.

The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr. Tristan Garel-Jones)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Further to that point of order, I well appreciate the House's keen interest in the recent reports. I am sure that the House will also appreciate—the right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton (Mr. Kaufman) has frequently made reference to it—that it would be extremely unwise for the Government to attempt to make an immediate statement on the basis of accounts of a reported decision on Baghdad radio.

In view of the large number of conditions apparently being attached to the announcement, we are extremely sceptical as to whether this represents any advance in Iraq's position. The House's position, as the right hon. Gentleman has just stated, remains that Iraq must withdraw unconditionally, completely and irreversibly from Kuwait and must comply fully with the United Nations resolutions. I can assure the House that, as and when information that would make a statement appropriate becomes available, my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary will come to the House with it.

Several Hon. Members

rose

Mr. Speaker

The House will have heard what the Minister of State said. There is nothing more that I can add. He has already stated that as soon as information becomes available—doubtless we shall hear about it early next week—it will be dealt with.

Mr. Dennis Skinner (Bolsover)

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker

Is it a point of order that I can deal with?

Mr. Skinner

Yes.

Mr. Speaker

In that case, I shall take it.

Mr. Skinner

You, Mr. Speaker, have heard, like the rest of us, during the last two or three hours that there is the possibility of a ceasefire in the Gulf. I find it reprehensible that you, Mr. Speaker, have not been allowed to hear the matter properly debated and a statement made so that some of us could say, quite properly, that we believe that the ceasefire should be accepted and that the British Government should not take their orders from the Pentagon.

Mr. Speaker

It is reprehensible that the hon. Gentleman should use those words. He should know that, as Speaker of the House, I have been following these matters very carefully, I shall do my duty to the House when the time arises.

Mr. John Gorst (Hendon, North)

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Could it be made abundantly clear that rumours on Baghdad radio, amounting to no more than propaganda ploys, are no basis on which the Government can change—

Mr. Speaker

Order. That is a matter for debate.

Mrs. Margaret Ewing (Moray)

Further to the point of order, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate that the Government cannot comment until further information is available, but the Minister will be aware that my party has selected next Thursday for its half-day Supply debate on the Gulf situation and the restoration of peace in the region. Does he accept, therefore, that it is critical that we have a full statement by Monday at the latest, not merely on what has been said in Baghdad today but on what will happen over the weekend in the Soviet Union in conjunction with European Ministers? The terminology of the motion that we place before the House would obviously have to take account of those matters. My party would be willing to give back to the Government that part of our Supply day if they would prefer to table a motion for debate.

Mr. Speaker

That is a helpful point of order. The hon. Lady has done a service to the House by saying that. The whole House knows that this is a critical and crucial matter. I am certain that, at the appropriate moment, we shall have a debate on it, but I do not think that we can debate it now. Plainly, as hon. Members have said, there is not enough news on which to base a judgment.

Mr. Simon Hughes (Southwark and Bermondsey)

I am grateful to you, Mr. Speaker, and your predecessor in the Chair and to Front-Bench spokesmen for being here to respond to points of order. If developments suggest a ground for hope of a withdrawal—I accept what the right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton (Mr. Kaufman) and the Minister have said—it would presumably be in the best interests of the House for next week's business to be reorganised, in co-operation with all the parties, to facilitate that debate at the earliest available opportunity. We must not allow an opportunity for a positive response to a peace initiative to pass without Parliament being able to say that it approves it.

Mr. Speaker

The Patronage Secretary is on the Front Bench and will have heard what has been said. I do not disagree with what the hon. Gentleman said.

Several Hon. Members

rose

Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Members who are rising may well put their position in jeopardy when we reach the debate. I am bound to take account of those who raise points of order as against the interests of their colleagues when it comes to speaking in the debate. I think that they should bear that in mind.

Mr. Ken Livingstone (Brent, East)

I ask for your guidance, Mr. Speaker. Will the Government say that, if there is any hope of a withdrawal from Kuwait, while we wait for that information to be confirmed they will cease bombing raids on Iraq so that there is no further unnecessary loss of life?

Mr. Speaker

That is a point for the debate.

Mr. Tony Banks (Newham, North-West)

I trust that I am not jeopardising my chances of catching your eye, Mr. Speaker, in the future. As you well know, there is a precedent for the House meeting on a Saturday, as it did during the Falklands war. Will you tell the House that you will hold yourself ready and will view sympathetically any request for the House to meet tomorrow?

Mr. Speaker

I shall be staying here over the weekend.

Mr. Harry Barnes (Derbyshire, North-East)

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, about the information that is available to hon. Members. For some time, a statement has been available to the Foreign Office and is appearing on Ceefax. The Library is having to jot it down in long hand in order to have it typed and made available to hon. Members. It would have been convenient if, before these points of order, the statement could have been available to us so that we could have questioned the Minister properly.

Mr. Speaker

This is a fast-moving situation, and discussions have been taking place until the very last minute. I doubt whether it would be possible to do what the hon. Member suggests.

Mr. Jeremy Corbyn (Islington, North)

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker

I shall take a final point of order from the hon. Member.

Mr. Corbyn

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As you rightly said, this is a fast-moving situation, and Parliament should be able to respond to it. I ask you to make arrangements so that, if necessary, the House can be recalled or so that a statement can be made on Monday, because the carnage of the bombing in Iraq must be stopped. I should have thought that what we heard this morning at least gives an opportunity for the bombing raids that are murdering thousands of civilians in that country to cease.

Mr. Speaker

I have already told the House that I shall be staying here for the weekend and that I shall be available. We must move on to the private Members' Bills.