HC Deb 02 December 1991 vol 200 cc3-4
2. Mr. Michael

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what plans he has to change the organisation of the ambulance service in Wales; and whether he will make it his policy that the service should continue to be organised on a county or health authority basis.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Mr. Nicholas Bennett)

We are considering whether reform of the ambulance and patient transport services in Wales may lead to a more cost-effective service, greater efficiency and, therefore, better patient care.

Mr. Michael

Will the Minister end the secrecy surrounding that consideration and tell us his view of the Powys, Gwent and South Glamorgan combination, which is like a giant, inverted reverse question mark around the deprived county of Mid Glamorgan? Is he aware that the only reason for their proposals that has been given by the managers of those three ambulance services is that that combination would protect their market share? Will the Minister give up the nonsense about a market in care and a market in accidents? Does he accept that people in every part of Wales want an efficient local service and want to be treated as patients, not as pieces of a market share?

Mr. Bennett

We have not yet received the application to which the hon. Gentleman refers. If it is received, we shall give it careful consideration and there will, of course, be wide public consultation on it. We shall not approve any applications for changes in the ambulance and patient transport services that are not in the best interests of patients throughout Wales.

Mr. Gwilym Jones

Does my hon. Friend agree that rather than taking a dogmatic approach, and in the interests of improving the service, it would be better to wait to see what proposals are produced by the professionals—those who run and really know about the ambulance service?

Mr. Bennett

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to say that it is important that we wait to see the contents of any application and plan. I can assure the House that we shall not allow any application to go forward for consideration if it does not provide for real improvements in the way in which patients are treated in the ambulance and patient transport services. Any application that is allowed to go forward for public consideration will be subject to full consultation.

Mr. Livsey

Does the Minister agree that, as presently constituted, Powys ambulance service gives a superb service in a very rural area? Is he aware that Powys health authority is opposed to the amalgamation of the Powys ambulance service with those of South Glamorgan and Gwent? Does he agree that that would be an unacceptable combination?

Mr. Bennett

The hon. Gentleman will not expect me to comment on that—[HON. MEMBERS: "We do."]—because, as I have said, we must wait for the application to come forward.—[Interruption.] The problem with the Opposition is that they do not want proper consultation and consideration.

Mr. Michael

The Minister is running away from the issue.

Mr. Bennett

The application has not yet come forward —[Interruption.] I cannot be running away from something that has not yet happened. As I have said, the application has not yet come forward, but when it does, it will be carefully considered and if it seems to have—[Interruption.] I cannot have an opinion on something that I have not yet seen. The Opposition do not want to wait for careful, mature consideration. We shall await the proposals and, when they come forward, we shall consider whether they are in a form that enables them to be put forward for public consultation. Obviously, we shall carefully weigh the views of Powys health authority in any consideration.