HC Deb 15 April 1991 vol 189 cc108-16
Mr. Michael

I beg to move amendment No. 15, in page 8, line 16, at end add— `(7) This Act shall not come into force or replace the old law unless and until it is rendered necessary by directives agreed within the European Community.'. After discussing a number of amendments, it is quite interesting to come back to base and discuss whether the legislation is necessary in the absence of any requirement from Europe for the changes which are the basis of the Bill.

It is a fact that existing EC legislation on official, state-backed export credit insurance does not prohibit the ECGD from providing insurance for United Kingdom exporters exporting to other EC markets and that if new legislation were to be introduced prohibiting such insurance official export credit insurers such as ECGD would have sufficient time to adjust—probably two to three years as with single market legislation. It is a fact that if existing legislation, for instance the distortion of trade restrictions under article 92 of the treaty of Rome, were to be interpreted afresh in relation to official export credit insurance, again there would be plenty of time for bodies such as the ECGD to react and change. As we said before the start of the Bill's sad progress through the House, there would be plenty of time for any changes to be made were there to be such pressure from Europe, but there is no such pressure. To push ahead with ISG's full privatisation is unnecessary at this stage in relation to EC legislation. If 1SG were to be changed to a Government-owned company, the Government would be able to continue to provide full backing—though not as direct as at present —for United Kingdom exporters, while retaining the flexibility to effect a full privatisation if any new EC legislation were to arise. The fact that the Government have not chosen that course demonstrates the dogmatic and extreme nature of the legislation.

The question of increased competition for ISG services to United Kingdom exporters from other EC export credit insurers is slightly different. With effect from 1 July 1990 when the second non-life insurance directive came into force, EC insurers have been able to provide insurance for exporters in one member state in the EC without needing to have a representative or branch office in that member state. Some state-backed credit insurers, notably COFACE of France, have had offices in the United

Kingdom for several years without having any serious impact on the ECGD. However, the directive has forced the pace of change and has meant that the ISG should face greater competition for its services—although that has not materialised yet—which could threaten its future viability and which it cannot counter. That is because the Act under which the ECGD operates relates only to United Kingdom exporters, and the Government are very unlikely to agree to a change of the Act to allow the ECGD to insure exports from other EC countries and thus compete on an equal basis with other European credit insurers.

It is sad that the Government do not wish our own institutions to compete on an equal basis with European institutions. Although other EC business would be profitable, the insurance provided for it by the Government would be regarded as an additional contingent liability. It must be the case that a Government-owned company, and the 1SG as it is currently constituted, could provide export credit insurance for other EC exporters just as easily as a privatised ISG would be able to, and such insurance could be provided under a separate account operated on a strictly commercial basis.

As I said, we come back to the beginning of the sad series of events. When an announcement was made of the Government's intention to take the Insurance Services Group into the private sector, my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff, West (Mr. Morgan) and I went to see the then Secretary of State for Trade and Industry—who usually managed to stay awake during debates. We asked him to tell us what made the privatisation necessary, but he was completely unable to do so. That is why I want the full attention of the present Secretary of State. The Minister who represented him in Committee throughout the privatisation process was unable, when challenged, to give us a reason why the legislation was necessary as a result of any legislation, regulation or other changes within the European Community. There is no reason for the Bill. No reason other than that it is an EC requirement has been given. The only reason offered by the right hon. Member for Cirencester and Tewkesbury (Mr. Ridley), when he announced the intention to proceed with the legislation, was that it would be required by European Community directives. The amendment merely states: This Act shall not come into force or replace the old law unless and until it is rendered necessary by directives agreed within the European Community. All we ask is that the reason given for the legislation by the then Secretary of State should be the criterion according to which it is acted upon. Surely that is reasonable. Surely the Minister and the present Secretary of State agree that the amendment would require them merely to stand by their own logic in introducing the legislation.

Mr. Sainsbury

Of all the amendments tabled by the Opposition, I suspect that this is the most damaging to the interests of exporters—and it has had some competition. The amendment is wide ranging and covers the whole Bill. If it were accepted—especially against the background presented by the hon. Member for Cardiff, South and Penarth (Mr. Michael)—it would delay for a considerable time—and from what he said, he would prefer it to delay it for ever—the opportunity for the ECGD to exercise its new powers contained in part I. It would also prevent the ECGD from using the new financial management powers contained in clause 3, which permit arrangements to contain, control and possibly reduce the costs of the ECGD's portfolio. That hardly seems sensible. It would delay the modernisation and improvement of the powers of the continuing ECGD. The new arrangements on investment and insurance and the new reporting arrangements would all be prevented by the amendment.

Perhaps more seriously, the Opposition persist in their erroneous belief that there is no reason to suspect that there would be any challenge from the European Community to state export credit insurance operations. They have argued that, because there is not yet any European Community legislation prohibiting state involvement, Government plans to privatise the insurance services business are over-hasty or premature. I can only imagine what accusations they would make when, if EC legislation were passed, we were not prepared for it and our exporters suffered as a consequence. I suggest that the Opposition's belief means that they are turning their back on reality. Debates on the implication of official export credit insurance operations have been a regular feature of discussions within the relevant experts' working groups in Brussels in recent months in anticipation of the completion of the single market at the end of 1992. There have been a number of Commission initiatives to regulate or to harmonise officially supported export credits. The possibility of a challenge to official short-term operations has become more immediate.

There was the delivery of the Advocate General's opinion following the action brought by a Belgian private credit insurer against the European Council and the European Commission. The Advocate General considered the case inadmissible on technical grounds, but otherwise well founded in substance. That is fairly conclusive evidence that the legal challenge to which we refer is real and imminent.

The case was brought by Les Assurances du Credit SA, known as Namur, against the EC Council and the Commission. Namur alleges that the various directives relating to non-life insurance discriminate against private sector companies by placing official agencies in a privileged position. That legal opinion reinforces a view commonly held about official export credit arrangements. I suggest to the hon. Member for Cardiff, South and Penarth not only that the amendment is ill-conceived in that it would delay getting the benefit of the improvements in the powers of ECGD which are contained throughout the Bill, but that it ignores the reality of the legal challenge that is looming from the European Community. I therefore urge the House to reject the amendment.

9.45 pm
Mr. Michael

The Minister has repeated his arguments. They are no stronger and no more valid than they were in Committee when they were roundly dismissed. He says that it is damaging not to be ready for change. It is even more damaging to fail to support our exporters. The Minister says that it is a damaging and wide-ranging amendment. Despite its brevity, the debate has demonstrated that the Government's only argument for introducing the Bill is, as it always was, misplaced and false. We are content to stand by our demonstration of that in this debate. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Order for Third Reading read.—[Queen's Consent, on behalf of the Crown, signified.]

9.47 pm
Mr. Sainsbury

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.

The Bill is excellent and will provide further assistance to British exporters in a number of ways. The Opposition's resistance to it has been another manifestation of their attitude to privatisation, which the hon. Member for Cardiff, South and Penarth (Mr. Michael) has derided as unnecessary, unproductive and unhelpful to exporters. It is quite the contrary. A privatised Insurance Services Group will be able to provide a still better and more flexible service to exporters. It will be able to provide the domestic credit insurance that it is presently unable to provide and it will, therefore, cover its customers' needs more comprehensively, which customers are clearly anxious to see. Furthermore, it will be able to pursue business overseas if it so wishes. I scarcely think that the Opposition would propose that taxpayers' money should be used through a Government-owned ECGD to enable that business to provide export credit indurance for the exports of other countries competing with British exports.

The primary reasons for the privatisation are business reasons, which the Opposition have persistently failed to recognise. Privatisation is the only realistic way in which to enable insurance services to compete freely with other credit insurers in Europe and to meet the needs of United Kingdom companies by allowing them access to a package of credit insurance covering both domestic and export business. At present, the Insurance Services Group's ability to respond to competition is restricted. The Bill will remove those restrictions and enable the Insurance Services Group to provide a still better service to our exporters. It will also allow the Insurance Services Group to meet any legal challenge. It is clear from what I said on Report that the legal challenge is real and near.

The legal challenge may be mounted at any time against state export credit insurers as representing a state aid incompatible with article 92 of the treaty of Rome. Furthermore, the Bill contains a number of other improvements, especially those in clause 3, which will enable the continuing ECGD to manage its important portfolio of investments to the greater benefit of the taxpayer and, therefore, to the greater benefit of exporters.

The Bill is the most radical overhaul of export credit arrangements in their 70 years of existence. The Government have never shirked from taking radical steps when they are necessary and beneficial to British industry, as the Bill is. It will help by providing a more flexible, more responsive, more customer-oriented and up-to-date service through the privatised Insurance Services Group and it will enable the ECGD to provide a better service for project exports. I commend the Bill to the House.

9.49 pm
Ms. Quin

The Third Reading takes place after detailed consideration of the Bill, particularly in Committee. I pay tribute to my hon. Friends for the way in which they scrutinised it so carefully in Committee. In doing so, they effectively stood up for the interests of industry and exporters.

The Minister has tried to come across as the voice of sweet reason. One would think that he has been listening carefully to exporters and industry and to the work force at the ECGD in Cardiff and their representatives, and that he is part of a Government who strongly support exports.

One would never realise the reality—that, first, the Bill is highly controversial legislation which does not command the widespread support that the Minister suggested and, secondly, that exporters are deeply suspicious and worried about the future of the ECGD and about privatisation.

Exporters are worried about how the ECGD will work. In particular, as they have told us several times, they are worried about the workings of the portfolio management system and about the continuing pressure to reduce cover for many countries and markets. They believe that the restrictions on the ECGD will not allow them to win business and contracts in those markets.

It is clear from the correspondence and meetings that Labour Members have had with firms and their representatives that they are deeply worried about certain aspects of the privatisation. Manufacturing industry is particularly worried. Some of our major exporters, who sub-contract to many smaller firms, are deeply worried about the effect of privatisation and what it will mean for premium rates and the amount of insurance and reinsurance that will be available. The Minister sought to offer industry some comfort about the system for reinsurance and political risk reinsurance. None the less, the strongest objections and concerns have been expressed to us, and nothing less than a statutory commitment to continue political risk reinsurance, in its fullest form, will be acceptable to industry.

One would never think that the Bill is being considered against the background of three years of trade deficit or at a time of recession, when industry is suffering considerable hardship and difficulty. The Bill is an inappropriate response to current circumstances and we are not surprised that industry is so concerned about it.

In Committee, some Conservative Members were unhappy about what was being proposed. They have been less vocal tonight, but we have noticed some mutterings and expressions of continuing unhappiness on the Government Benches. Those hon. Members are in close contact with firms and industries in their constituencies and are aware of the amount of discontent that is being expressed.

Mr. Barry Porter

I do not wish to involve myself in the mutterings which it has been suggested come from this side. It strikes me that most Conservative Members accept the general principles of privatisation, competition and so on in the Bill. Mutterings arise only about whether industrialists and exporters are getting equality of treatment with competitors. That is the problem. Perhaps the hon. Lady will ask the Minister whether that is to be kept under continual review. I do not like to use the phrase "level playing field", but there is in the Bill an element of digging holes in the pitch.

Ms. Quin

Indeed, the arguments about the level playing field were consistently advanced in Committee. Certainly exporters are not so much muttering as shouting discontent about this issue. Many statistics have been given for the different premium rates charged in different parts of Europe; they show that our exporters are disadvantaged compared with their European counterparts.

Even if privatisation were shown to be desirable, my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff, South and Penarth (Mr. Michael) is right to say that the timing of the measure is unfortunate as we do not know what the European Community is likely to propose. It is simply silly to guess its proposals in advance. As a result of whatever the proposals are, the Minister may well find that this legislation is inappropriate.

The legislation will now proceed to another place. I hope that the Government will not be able to rely on the supine support of their supporters there. It is well known that there are independent-minded members who may support the Government on certain issues, but may not do so on this legislation. We urge the Government to listen carefully to the amendments that are likely to be tabled in the other place.

Better than accepting the amendments tabled in the other place, it would be advisable for the Government even at this late stage to abandon this ill-judged, ill-thought-out and dogmatic legislation.

Question put, That the Bill be now read the Third time:—

The House divided: Ayes 281, Noes 194.

Division No. 109] [9.57 pm
Aitken, Jonathan Couchman, James
Alexander, Richard Cran, James
Alison, Rt Hon Michael Currie, Mrs Edwina
Allason, Rupert Davies, Q. (Stamf'd & Spald'g)
Amess, David Davis, David (Boothferry)
Amos, Alan Day, Stephen
Arbuthnot, James Devlin, Tim
Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham) Dickens, Geoffrey
Arnold, Sir Thomas Dicks, Terry
Ashby, David Dorrell, Stephen
Aspinwall, Jack Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James
Atkinson, David Dover, Den
Baker, Nicholas (Dorset N) Durant, Sir Anthony
Baldry, Tony Dykes, Hugh
Banks, Robert (Harrogate) Eggar, Tim
Batiste, Spencer Emery, Sir Peter
Bellingham, Henry Evans, David (Welwyn Hatf'd)
Bendall, Vivian Evennett, David
Bennett, Nicholas (Pembroke) Fallon, Michael
Benyon, W. Favell, Tony
Bevan, David Gilroy Fenner, Dame Peggy
Biffen, Rt Hon John Field, Barry (Isle of Wight)
Blackburn, Dr John G. Finsberg, Sir Geoffrey
Blaker, Rt Hon Sir Peter Fishburn, John Dudley
Body, Sir Richard Fookes, Dame Janet
Bonsor, Sir Nicholas Forman, Nigel
Boscawen, Hon Robert Forsyth, Michael (Stirling)
Boswell, Tim Fowler, Rt Hon Sir Norman
Bottomley, Peter Fox, Sir Marcus
Bottomley, Mrs Virginia Franks, Cecil
Bowden, Gerald (Dulwich) Freeman, Roger
Bowis, John French, Douglas
Boyson, Rt Hon Dr Sir Rhodes Fry, Peter
Brandon-Bravo, Martin Gale, Roger
Brazier, Julian Gill, Christopher
Brown, Michael (Brigg & Cl't's) Glyn, Dr Sir Alan
Bruce, Ian (Dorset South) Goodhart, Sir Philip
Buck, Sir Antony Goodlad, Alastair
Burns, Simon Goodson-Wickes, Dr Charles
Burt, Alistair Gorman, Mrs Teresa
Butler, Chris Gorst, John
Butterfill, John Grant, Sir Anthony (CambsSW)
Carlisle, John, (Luton N) Greenway, Harry (Ealing N)
Carlisle, Kenneth (Lincoln) Greenway, John (Ryedale)
Carrington, Matthew Gregory, Conal
Cash, William Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth N)
Chapman, Sydney Grist, Ian
Chope, Christopher Ground, Patrick
Churchill, Mr Grylls, Michael
Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford) Hague, William
Clark, Rt Hon Sir William Hamilton, Hon Archie (Epsom)
Colvin, Michael Hamilton, Neil (Tatton)
Coombs, Anthony (Wyre F'rest) Hampson, Dr Keith
Coombs, Simon (Swindon) Hannam, John
Hargreaves, A. (B'ham H'll Gr') Nicholson, David (Taunton)
Hargreaves, Ken (Hyndburn) Nicholson, Emma (Devon West)
Harris, David Norris, Steve
Haselhurst, Alan Onslow, Rt Hon Cranley
Hawkins, Christopher Oppenheim, Phillip
Hayhoe, Rt Hon Sir Barney Page, Richard
Hayward, Robert Paice, James
Heathcoat-Amory, David Parkinson, Rt Hon Cecil
Heseltine, Rt Hon Michael Patnick, Irvine
Hicks, Mrs Maureen (Wolv' NE) Patten, Rt Hon Chris (Bath)
Higgins, Rt Hon Terence L. Patten, Rt Hon John
Hill, James Pattie, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey
Hogg, Hon Douglas (Gr'th'm) Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth
Holt, Richard Porter, Barry (Wirral S)
Hordern, Sir Peter Porter, David (Waveney)
Howard, Rt Hon Michael Portillo, Michael
Howell, Ralph (North Norfolk) Powell, William (Corby)
Hughes, Robert G. (Harrow W) Price, Sir David
Hunt, Rt Hon David Raison, Rt Hon Sir Timothy
Hunt, Sir John (Ravensbourne) Rathbone, Tim
Hunter, Andrew Rhodes James, Robert
Irvine, Michael Riddick, Graham
Irving, Sir Charles Ridley, Rt Hon Nicholas
Jack, Michael Roberts, Sir Wyn (Conwy)
Janman, Tim Rost, Peter
Jessel, Toby Rowe, Andrew
Johnson Smith, Sir Geoffrey Rumbold, Rt Hon Mrs Angela
Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N) Ryder, Rt Hon Richard
Jones, Robert B (Herts W) Sackville, Hon Tom
Jopling, Rt Hon Michael Sainsbury, Hon Tim
Kellett-Bowman, Dame Elaine Sayeed, Jonathan
Key, Robert Scott, Rt Hon Nicholas
Kirkhope, Timothy Shaw, David (Dover)
Knapman, Roger Shaw, Sir Giles (Pudsey)
Knight, Greg (Derby North) Shelton, Sir William
Knox, David Shephard, Mrs G. (Norfolk SW)
Latham, Michael Shepherd, Colin (Hereford)
Lawrence, Ivan Shepherd, Richard (Aldridge)
Leigh, Edward (Gainsbor'gh) Shersby, Michael
Lennox-Boyd, Hon Mark Sims, Roger
Lester, Jim (Broxtowe) Skeet, Sir Trevor
Lilley, Rt Hon Peter Smith, Sir Dudley (Warwick)
Lloyd, Sir Ian (Havant) Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield)
Lloyd, Peter (Fareham) Soames, Hon Nicholas
Lord, Michael Speed, Keith
Luce, Rt Hon Sir Richard Speller, Tony
Lyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas Spicer, Sir Jim (Dorset W)
Macfarlane, Sir Neil Spicer, Michael (S Worcs)
MacGregor, Rt Hon John Squire, Robin
MacKay, Andrew (E Berkshire) Stanbrook, Ivor
Maclean, David Stanley, Rt Hon Sir John
McLoughlin, Patrick Steen, Anthony
McNair-Wilson, Sir Patrick Stern, Michael
Madel, David Stevens, Lewis
Malins, Humfrey Stewart, Allan (Eastwood)
Mans, Keith Stewart, Andy (Sherwood)
Marland, Paul Stewart, Rt Hon Ian (Herts N)
Marlow, Tony Stokes, Sir John
Marshall, John (Hendon S) Summerson, Hugo
Marshall, Sir Michael (Arundel) Tapsell, Sir Peter
Martin, David (Portsmouth S) Taylor, Ian (Esher)
Mates, Michael Taylor, Teddy (S'end E)
Maude, Hon Francis Tebbit, Rt Hon Norman
Maxwell-Hyslop, Robin Thompson, D. (Calder Valley)
Meyer, Sir Anthony Thorne, Neil
Miller, Sir Hal Thurnham, Peter
Mills, Iain Tracey, Richard
Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling) Tredinnick, David
Mitchell, Sir David Trippier, David
Moate, Roger Trotter, Neville
Monro, Sir Hector Vaughan, Sir Gerard
Montgomery, Sir Fergus Viggers, Peter
Morris, M (N'hampton S) Wakeham, Rt Hon John
Morrison, Sir Charles Waldegrave, Rt Hon William
Moss, Malcolm Walden, George
Mudd, David Walker, Bill (T'side North)
Neale, Sir Gerrard Walters, Sir Dennis
Needham, Richard Ward, John
Nelson, Anthony Watts, John
Nicholls, Patrick Wells, Bowen
Wheeler, Sir John Woodcock, Dr. Mike
Whitney, Ray Yeo, Tim
Widdecombe, Ann Young, Sir George (Acton)
Wiggin, Jerry Younger, Rt Hon George
Wilkinson, John
Wilshire, David Tellers for the Ayes:
Winterton, Mrs Ann Mr. David Lightbown and
Wolfson, Mark Mr. John M. Taylor.
Wood, Timothy
Abbott, Ms Diane Darling, Alistair
Adams, Mrs Irene (Paisley, N.) Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli)
Allen, Graham Davies, Ron (Caerphilly)
Anderson, Donald Davis, Terry (B'ham Hodge H'l)
Archer, Rt Hon Peter Dewar, Donald
Armstrong, Hilary Dixon, Don
Ashley, Rt Hon Jack Doran, Frank
Ashton, Joe Duffy, A. E. P.
Barnes, Harry (Derbyshire NE) Dunwoody, Hon Mrs Gwyneth
Barron, Kevin Eadie, Alexander
Battle, John Eastham, Ken
Beckett, Margaret Evans, John (St Helens N)
Beith, A. J. Ewing, Mrs Margaret (Moray)
Benn, Rt Hon Tony Fatchett, Derek
Bennett, A. F. (D'nt'n & R'dish) Fearn, Ronald
Benton, Joseph Field, Frank (Birkenhead)
Bermingham, Gerald Flannery, Martin
Bidwell, Sydney Flynn, Paul
Blair, Tony Foot, Rt Hon Michael
Blunkett, David Foster, Derek
Boateng, Paul Fraser, John
Boyes, Roland Fyfe, Maria
Bradley, Keith Galbraith, Sam
Bray, Dr Jeremy Galloway, George
Brown, Nicholas (Newcastle E) Garrett, John (Norwich South)
Brown, Ron (Edinburgh Leith) Garrett, Ted (Wallsend)
Bruce, Malcolm (Gordon) George, Bruce
Buckley, George J. Gilbert, Rt Hon Dr John
Caborn, Richard Godman, Dr Norman A.
Callaghan, Jim Gould, Bryan
Campbell, Menzies (Fife NE) Graham, Thomas
Campbell, Ron (Blyth Valley) Grant, Bernie (Tottenham)
Campbell-Savours, D. N. Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S)
Canavan, Dennis Griffiths, Win (Bridgend)
Carlile, Alex (Mont'g) Grocott, Bruce
Clark, Dr David (S Shields) Hardy, Peter
Clarke, Tom (Monklands W) Harman, Ms Harriet
Cohen, Harry Haynes, Frank
Cook, Robin (Livingston) Healey, Rt Hon Denis
Cousins, Jim Henderson, Doug
Crowther, Stan Hinchliffe, David
Cryer, Bob Hoey, Ms Kate (Vauxhall)
Cummings, John Hogg, N. (C'nauld & Kilsyth)
Cunliffe, Lawrence Home Robertson, John
Cunningham, Dr John Hood, Jimmy
Dalyell, Tam Howarth, George (Knowsley N)
Howells, Dr. Kim (Pontypridd) Parry, Robert
Hughes, John (Coventry NE) Patchett, Terry
Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen N) Pendry, Tom
Hughes, Roy (Newport E) Pike, Peter L.
Illsley, Eric Powell, Ray (Ogmore)
Ingram, Adam Prescott, John
Janner, Greville Primarolo, Dawn
Kennedy, Charles Quin, Ms Joyce
Kirkwood, Archy Randall, Stuart
Lambie, David Redmond, Martin
Lamond, James Reid, Dr John
Leadbitter, Ted Richardson, Jo
Leighton, Ron Robertson, George
Lestor, Joan (Eccles) Rogers, Allan
Lewis, Terry Rooney, Terence
Livingstone, Ken Ross, Ernie (Dundee W)
Lloyd, Tony (Stretford) Rowlands, Ted
Lofthouse, Geoffrey Ruddock, Joan
Loyden, Eddie Salmond, Alex
McAllion, John Sedgemore, Brian
McAvoy, Thomas Sheerman, Barry
McCartney, Ian Shore, Rt Hon Peter
Macdonald, Calum A. Short, Clare
McFall, John Sillars, Jim
McKay, Allen (Barnsley West) Skinner. Dennis
McKelvey, William Smith, Andrew (Oxford E)
McLeish, Henry Smith, C. (Isl'ton & F'bury)
Maclennan, Robert Smith, Rt Hon J. (Monk'ds E)
McMaster, Gordon Smith, J. P. (Vale of Glam)
McNamara, Kevin Soley, Clive
McWilliam, John Spearing, Nigel
Madden, Max Steel, Rt Hon Sir David
Mahon, Mrs Alice Stott, Roger
Marek, Dr John Strang, Gavin
Marshall, David (Shettleston) Thompson, Jack (Wansbeck)
Martin, Michael J. (Springburn) Wallace, James
Martlew, Eric Wardell, Gareth (Gower)
Maxton, John Wareing, Robert N.
Meacher, Michael Watson, Mike (Glasgow, C)
Meale, Alan Welsh, Andrew (Angus E)
Michael, Alun Welsh, Michael (Doncaster N)
Michie, Mrs Ray (Arg'l & Bute) Williams, Rt Hon Alan
Mitchell, Austin (G't Grimsby) Williams, Alan W. (Carm'then)
Morgan, Rhodri Wilson, Brian
Morley, Elliot Winnick, David
Morris, Rt Hon A. (W'shawe) Wise, Mrs Audrey
Morris, Rt Hon J. (Aberavon) Worthington, Tony
Mowlam, Marjorie Wray, Jimmy
Mullin, Chris Young, David (Bolton SE)
Murphy, Paul
Oakes, Rt Hon Gordon Tellers for the Noes:
O'Brien, William Mrs. Llin Golding and
Orme, Rt Hon Stanley Mr. Jimmy Dunnachie.

Question accordingly agreed to.

Bill read the Third time, and passed.