§ Lord James Douglas-HamiltonI beg to move amendment No. 19, in page 47, leave out lines 32 to 36.
§ Lord James Douglas-HamiltonAfter a lengthy debate, the Committee agreed the amendment in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for Eastwood (Mr. Stewart)— 1146 who is here tonight—to remove section 64(4) from the Licensing (Scotland) Act 1976, with the intention of enabling licensing boards to grant occasional or regular extensions of the permitted hours of public houses on Sundays, which now run from 12.30 pm to 2.30 pm and from 6.30 pm to 11 pm. At the conclusion of the debate, I explained that the effect of the amendment would be to enable licensing boards to grant extensions of the permitted hours of public houses on Sundays for the periods before 12.30 pm and after 11 pm. I also suggested that a clarifying amendment would be needed on Report.
Both in the substantive debate and as a result of the changes following my statement, a range of views were expressed about the intentions of the Committee. Several hon. Members referred to the need to put public houses and hotels on the same basis; others argued that public houses should not be open before 12.30 pm. In summing up, the hon. Member for Glasgow, Garscadden (Mr. Dewar) said that he was under the impression that the amendment not only dealt with the afternoon break, but provided also for later opening at the discretion of the licensing board.
Amendment No. 19 deletes from clause 41 the references to extensions from Saturday night to Sunday morning. This provision is now inserted in amendment No. 20, which introduces into clause 42 an amended section 64(4) to empower licensing boards to grant occasional or regular extensions of permitted hours on Sundays in respect of public houses only to premises to which section 59 of the 1976 Act applies—restaurants in public houses—or after 2.30 pm. That will enable boards to grant late-night as well as afternoon extensions on a Sunday, if they consider it appropriate.
In considering applications, the licensing board will be required to refuse an application if the grant would cause undue disturbance or public nuisance in the locality. This is on all fours with the test for Sunday opening within the permitted hours, which is specified in clause 42(4).
§ Mr. WilsonI fully support the amendment: it gets the balance right—a balance that the Committee wanted. On the one hand, there is a general tightening up on the granting of late licences, while the Sunday anomaly has been removed. On the other hand, every member of the Committee—indeed, I think, most hon. Members—would support the view that there should not be Sunday-morning opening. If that were accepted, the balance would tilt too far in the other direction. The Minister has the balance about right.
I should like to place on record the representations that I received at a meeting on Friday with representatives of the Scottish area of the National Association of Licensed House Managers. They are opposed to Sunday opening for the understandable reason that that is the only time at which some of them can be with their families. I respect that consideration. I voted for longer Sunday opening and I shall not renege on that now. The licensed trade will have to address the matter. One cannot deal with the problem faced by that small group of people by a general denial of what is perceived as an extension of other people's freedom of choice. Plainly, that is a problem for that group of people, and I hope that the licensed trade will look at ways of avoiding the need for such managers to be as constantly on the premises as they seem to be at present.
The managers also said that nobody should be under any illusion about the fact that the consumer pays for the 1147 extension of opening hours. As they have said, the extension of opening times throughout the 1980s has been accompanied by an increase in the price of drink that is higher than the increase in the retail prices index. They maintain that that is significantly related to the extension of opening hours. The consumer should be aware of that.
As I have said, I think that the Minister has struck the right balance. The boards have a special responsibility to ensure that risks of disturbance and intrusion upon other people's rights are taken into account, especially in relation to late opening on Sundays. The boards will have to exercise that power with care. I support the amendment and welcome what the Minister has brought back from the Committee.
§ Mr. Allan StewartI thank my hon. Friend the Minister for his consideration of this matter following the debate and vote in Committee on my amendment. I did not intend, and I do not think that any Member of the Committee intended, that the debate would result in opening on a Sunday morning. The Minister has struck the right balance, and I hope that the House will support the amendments.
§ Mr. Harry EwingFor the benefit of those outside who will read the report of our proceedings, I should like to place on record my understanding of the position on Sunday. I hope that the Minister will confirm or correct my interpretation. It is that the licence holder has to make an application to the licensing board to open between 2.30 and 6 pm on a Sunday and that the board has a discretion about whether to grant that application. For an extension after 11 pm, the licence holder would make an application against the background of the changes to the principal Act, which rightly introduces restrictions on extended hours after 11 pm. I hope that the Minister will confirm that there will not be automatic opening between 2.30 and 6 pm but that the licence holder has to apply to the licensing board, which will have the power to grant or refuse the application.
§ Lord James Douglas-HamiltonI confirm what the hon. Gentleman says, but the time is not 6 pm—it is 6.30 pm.
§ Amendment agreed to.